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Rockin' Rhonda: Peter and Dave, they're on the mics. All right, join the ride. It's gonna feel just right.

Peter McCully: Welcome back to The Pulse Community Podcast. I'm Peter McCully. And we're rolling into the final stretch of 2025 with fresh stories and inspiring people from mid-Vancouver Island.

Dave Graham: And I'm Dave Graham. I gotta say, Peter, even though I follow the calendar and I basically understand the passage of time, the onset of New Year always somehow catches me by surprise. But here we are. And at this time, thoughts for some of us might be turning to what we could do to make the coming year better. Some call them resolutions, and you know, I'm thinking I'm onto something. I'm getting a head start this year.

Peter McCully: You're making resolutions early, Dave?

Dave Graham: You got it. The way I see it, if I start now, I'm going to have a trial period before they become official and we'll see how it goes. So I am resolving to be more organized and more punctual. I'm going to eat more veggies, read more books, save more money, be more funny, worry less, and I'm gonna clean out the garage.

Peter McCully: Do you think maybe you're just aiming a little too high, Dave? Well, Peter, I see lots of room for improvement, which means I can't let her ride anymore.

Dave Graham: I gotta be taking care of business. Believe me, you ain't seen nothing yet.

Peter McCully: I see what you're doing there. Hey, you are on the ball.

Dave Graham: I'm just looking out for number one here. That's all I'm saying. Okay, I'll say another thing. We have a couple of guests today who are absolute masters of their respective crafts.

Peter McCully: Lance LaPointe of Port Alberni spent most of the past year touring North America as bassist and vocalist for legendary Canadian rockers, Bachman-Turner Overdrive.

Lance LaPointe: I think what excites me about making music is just the chance that you don't know what's happening. I love how you can go into the unknown. I don't think about my bills or problems. I know it's a 90-minute show, but they're the best 90 minutes because I'm not thinking about anything except for just delivering the song. And so I think from anything that I've learned from music and from being in this band is just to enjoy it because time is short.

Dave Graham: Wise words from Lance: enjoy it because time is short, which reminds me I need to add a resolution to waste less time. Here we go, from the story of one incredible career to another. Campbell River's Kirk Krack has spent nearly five years working on James Cameron's Avatar movies, training actors. Avatar Three: Fire and Ash is in theatres, and Kirk joined us to talk about his remarkable work.

Kirk Krack: I worked in these specially built tanks and we had dotted suits and we did everything in the water. Watching the movie, when you see Zoe Saldana or Kate Winslet or any one of the kids' characters diving and doing whatever they were doing, that breath-hold dive, they were in the water doing that action. This isn't where people fly and lasers come out of people's eyes, right? It's not fantasy. It's our reality. So the real physics of the world needed to translate, and that was an important thing.

Peter McCully: There you have it. Two Vancouver Island talents doing extraordinary things. One rocking stages across North America, the other training Hollywood stars to hold their breath underwater.

Dave Graham: Oh, I also want to become a better guitar player and go see more movies. Wow, these resolutions are starting to pile up. Maybe I need to resolve to keep it simple.

Peter McCully: Future guests to The Pulse Community will include Shirley McQueen, a longtime broadcaster who brings her storytelling to Icon Radio on Vancouver Island.

Dave Graham: We'll chat with Debbie Patterson of 100 Women Who Care Oceanside. This philanthropic group will soon be reaching the $1 million mark in donations to local causes.

Peter McCully: Singer-songwriter Ryan McMahon of Ladysmith joins us, as well as Kristen Nickells of Toastmasters.

Dave Graham: I must take a moment to plug Echo Players in their holy pantomime, Bratman, which is currently in production at the Village Theatre in Qualicum Beach, and it's getting some fine reviews. Get your ticket soon for Holy Pantomime, Bratman. This is the world premiere of an original play, written and directed by Jay Neumann, and I might have had a little something to do with the narration. I offer the cast my very best wishes for broken legs all round. The show is on the verge of selling out—closes December 28th.

Peter McCully: Is this Kristy Pinchak?

Kristy Pinchak: Yes.

Peter McCully: It's Peter McCully calling from The Pulse Community. Hi, how are you today?

Kristy Pinchak: Good, how are you?

Peter McCully: I'm doing very well. I'm calling to tell you that Dave Graham drew your name out of a great big draw drum for our Tigh-na-Mara contest, which you entered a short time ago.

Kristy Pinchak: Yay! I'm very excited. Thank you.

Peter McCully: Well, you're quite welcome. This was our most popular contest to date.

Kristy Pinchak: Oh, wow.

Peter McCully: There were literally hundreds of contestants who entered. As a matter of fact, in the very first half hour, Dave ran out of fingers and toes. He was trying to count all the ballots.

Kristy Pinchak: Oh, really?

Peter McCully: So what you've won is a two-hour self-care journey from the folks at Tigh-na-Mara. So a very nice Christmas gift, I would say.

Kristy Pinchak: Yes, really nice. I'm really excited. I've never been there before.

Peter McCully: It is a great spot. We'll let the folks know at Tigh-na-Mara and they will be in touch on how you can claim your prize.

Kristy Pinchak: Perfect. Thank you very much. I really am very excited and I'm really appreciative.

Peter McCully: Well, thanks very much for entering our contest and being part of The Pulse Community.

Kristy Pinchak: Thank you.

Peter McCully: And Happy New Year.

Kristy Pinchak: Yes, you too. Bye.

Ian Lindsay & Associates: Ian Lindsay of Lindsay and Associates has played an active role in the local community since 1979. He has been with RE/MAX Vancouver Island's most advanced real estate business network since 1996, marketing and selling residential, rural, strata, recreational, investment, and project development real estate. Ian has received several awards recognizing his exceptional community commitment locally, as well as awards for outstanding performance and achievement from both RE/MAX International and the Vancouver Island Real Estate Board. You'll find true real estate professionals at ianlindsay.ca.

Peter McCully: If you would like to be a part of The Pulse podcast, you're invited to speak to us. Head to our website under the contact page, and send us a voice message about what's on your mind or an upcoming event. Contact us at thepulsecommunity.ca.

Dave Graham: And you can find us on Apple, Amazon, iHeartRadio, Spotify, TikTok, and YouTube. We're also on Facebook and Instagram. And now it's time for our first guest. Here comes a man who gets to play and sing songs that have been a part of the soundtrack to road trips and summer days for generations. Here's Marilyn.

Marilyn: Lance LaPointe is a Port Alberni-based singer-songwriter who spent most of the past year touring North America as bassist and vocalist for legendary Canadian rockers, Bachman-Turner Overdrive. He also performs with a Completely Creedence tribute band while maintaining his singer-songwriter career with multiple award-winning original releases.

Peter McCully: Thanks for joining us on the podcast today, Lance.

Lance LaPointe: Hey, thank you very much for having me. With a name like Lance LaPointe, I'm just picturing for some reason a hockey player.

Peter McCully: It's a hockey player's name.

Lance LaPointe: It is. My great-uncle Guy LaPointe played for the Montreal Canadiens. My grandfather told me that we're related, and my very first hockey card was a picture of a toothless, big, huge defenceman named Guy LaPointe, and I was like, oh, I actually wanted to be a hockey player because of him. I used to think that I had an original name. Growing up on the West Coast, there was no other LaPointes. Like on my mom's side, her family's from Manitoba. My dad's side, my grandfather ran away from home at 11 years old and rode trains and worked on farms. He smashed up his dad's car or something. Back then, you got your butt handed to you, right? He's got a very hobo story and no one really knows his story, but he ended up getting his stuff together and met my grandmother, who's Dutch, in Trail, BC. They moved to Victoria, they got married, they had kids. The rest is history. I always thought there's no LaPointes around here, but then I went to Quebec. There's so many LaPointes out there.

Peter McCully: There is a little hobo in you because you've lived your life on the road as a musician.

Lance LaPointe: Pretty much. Yes, I've had it ever since I can remember. My father had a guitar and I would always play it and he'd always teach me and I just wanted to be a guitar player. I remember seeing the video for "Jump" from Van Halen on Good Rockin' Tonight.

Peter McCully: Terry David Mulligan.

Lance LaPointe: Terry David Mulligan. Yes, he's a legend. I'd said, I wanna do that. Little did I know it's harder work than just watching a video. And how young did the music come to you? I can't remember anything else except for music. I am just a born musician. The earliest memory I have is my sister said, "Hey, you're three today." She grabbed my hand and she put my fingers up so I could make three. And I remember staring out my window in Lantzville—that's oddly enough, that's where I grew up, Ladysmith, no lie. And that's the first memory I had. And I just remember having music on in the background. And as soon as I woke up and it was my third birthday, I started playing guitar.

Peter McCully: And did you play other instruments other than guitar?

Lance LaPointe: Yes, I started actually on guitar, but my dad bought me a drum set when I was five. And my family's Métis—my mom's side is very Métis. And so every Saturday we'd go to my grandma's house and the whole family would be out. And I think my grandma had 11 kids, so all my cousins and kids, and they're all musical too. So it would be my grandma on piano, my grandfather on the fiddle, my dad playing guitar, my uncle playing guitar, my mom singing, the whole room—like 26 people—just all playing together. And so I was very blessed for that. That was my upbringing.

Peter McCully: And you go from 26 people in a room playing to one guy with one guitar on a beach in Tofino.

Lance LaPointe: Yes. Back in the day I lived in Port Alberni, which is about two hours away if you drive slow. But I learned how to get there pretty quick. When I was a kid, my friends all worked at a place called the Wickaninnish, and I quickly realized that I wasn't into the kitchen scene and stuff like that. So I sat on the beach with an acoustic guitar and I started playing guitar and people started listening. This is back when you could drive on the beach and you didn't have to worry about paying the government for parking. All these resorts started popping up and people would be sitting in a circle. I'd be like, "Hey, you guys wanna hear a song?" That's how I kind of got the name Campfire Lance, because not only was there a lot of tourists coming in, they didn't know how to start a fire on the beach. When you grow up on the West Coast, that's the first thing you learn, really. So I'd start a fire and people would be like, "Oh, cool. Right on." And I'd start playing guitar and that's how I got hired for basically my whole life.

Peter McCully: Did you have a band in high school?

Lance LaPointe: I was in bands, but I didn't have my own band. I was always playing bass for somebody or playing guitar. I was the side guy. I was a little bit shy. I still am, even though I'm a singer in an amazing band. I was pretty shy and I just wanted to learn as much as possible. Barry Miller, my teacher in high school, and Sarah Falls, Greg Falls, they were my inspirations. And if it wasn't for them saying, "You can do this, but you gotta do it right. You gotta learn your stripes right and earn your stripes," they basically brought me up through that industry so that I was able to, when I got done with school, I was like, "Oh, wait a sec. Maybe I can start my own band." If it wasn't for their teachings, I wouldn't be here.

Peter McCully: Somewhere along the way, you did start a couple of bands, some tribute bands, right?

Lance LaPointe: I started a Tom Petty tribute band that was short-lived. You can only play in bars for so long. I was playing acoustic on the beaches in Tofino, and I had gigs at coffee shops and I played at local places like the Rotting Grog, the Queen's, and I had a band called Manther. We used that old restricted sign with the cat. I used the same cat and I put Manther in there. It was just a play on being a dude. And then I had a band called Mr. 2 Cents, and then I started a band called Bipolar Bear, which is still running. They're still working in Victoria. That was probably my favourite band, and they had some success as well. I remember they did. They have a house gig. They've had it for 17 years now or something like that. I did it for about five, but I was driving back and forth from Victoria every Friday and Saturday from Port Alberni to Victoria to Port Alberni. You know, that's a lot of driving, and when you take in how time works when you're driving a lot, you grow old real quick 'cause the world's passing you by while you're speeding through it and you don't remember any of them. Sometimes I would remember, "Did I go through Cameron Lake? Oh my God, I think I fell asleep."

Peter McCully: And you've been up and down the island repeatedly as a member of Completely Creedence.

Lance LaPointe: Yes, Completely Creedence was created by Jamie Robertson, awesome friend of mine, like the salt of the Earth. He was in a band called Mr. Completely that had some success in Campbell River. Like a lot of us going back to like playing in bars, you get 200 bucks, 250. But when you book theatres and people start buying tickets, then you start getting into a different pay scale. Even if you have one or two theatre gigs a month, that's great. As a musician, it makes up for eight gigs at a coffee house. Jamie Robertson started that group about 10 years ago. They hired me about eight years ago. I left to do the Tom Petty tribute for a little bit. It wasn't really going very well and I was doing other things. I was going through transition, and then he phoned me. He said, "Hey, I need a bass player. Are you into keep on playing?" And I'm like, "Yes, let's go." So we just did a show actually at the Port Theatre in Nanaimo and it was almost sold out. It was awesome. And he's a great front man. Can't say enough about that guy.

Peter McCully: You've had a busy year as a member of Bachman-Turner Overdrive, BTO. Tell us how all of this happened. How did this come about?

Lance LaPointe: I have no idea. I'm a small-town guy with big dreams. I never thought I would get hired by a band like BTO. My father, who taught me how to play guitar, he passed away in 2013. He always told me, "You gotta get a job playing bass for Paul McCartney or Randy Bachman or something." And I was like, "Randy, who?" I knew who he was, but I remember playing "Takin' Care of Business" in school. It was like one of my first songs. And I said, "Yes, okay, Dad." And then he passed away and his guitar's in my car all the time. He's always with me. I put his ashes actually inside the guitar with some lacquer, so he's always there. Fast forward five years later, I get a call from Mel Washington who was having Tal Bachman—and Tal's band couldn't make it. And because I had a name for myself around the island as being pretty productive and a guy that could show up and kill it, they asked me if I wanted to be the support band for Tal. And I said, "Absolutely." This was like the opportunity I was looking for, just to expand and meet other people because when you're on an island, you're kind of confined, you know. I didn't do a lot of travelling. I did a little bit and I went to Poland for a while, played in a cover band there for a while, but this was a big deal for me. I showed up and Tal and I hit it off right away and we were just friends. We just kept in contact and six months, eight months would go by and we'd call each other and get together and just really heart-to-heart conversations. He's a very intellectual person. We would talk about everything from quantum physics to political sciences and music, and he's an amazing musician. I have no idea how that guy knows so many songs. Two or three years ago, he said, "Hey, would you be interested in maybe taking over for Fred Turner?" And I said, "Fred Turner from BTO?" And he said, "Yes, my dad wants to see your chops." So the last three years has been me learning every BTO and Guess Who song that I can just in case I got the call. And so I got the call. The rest is history.

Peter McCully: That's a huge catalogue.

Lance LaPointe: There's so many BTO songs and Guess Who songs. I stick to the ones that Randy wrote. He's been such a great person in my life. He's not like an employer. He is like my surrogate dad. I'm super blessed. And so anytime he says, "Hey, can you learn these songs?" I'm like, "Yep, I'm on it."

Peter McCully: Randy was on the podcast when he announced he was taking BTO out on the road and they were going to launch the whole thing in Victoria and then go straight across to Nova Scotia. And then a few weeks later on social media, he announced, "Hey, we'll be here." And then a few weeks later was, "Hey, we'll be here." And these were all US states. So there was a full schedule of US states, which I think you've just finished up. How many nights were you out on the road?

Lance LaPointe: To be honest with you, I'd have to talk to my manager. She knows the exact number. Erin Hunt, she's amazing. I couldn't ask for a better teacher on the road. She's had my back since day one. I know we did 36 dates across Canada, and the rest is a blur. That was in April, and playing in my dad's hometown of Victoria for the first time at Save-On-Foods Place—that was my "Hey, I made it" moment 'cause I always played in bars there and slugged it out and all of a sudden I'm in the arena. So we did 36 states, I think, across Canada and then all throughout the States I think we did well over a hundred dates, and that's just with BTO. When I would come back off the tours in the States, we would do two, three weeks on and two weeks off and three weeks on. I had gigs with Completely Creedence and I'm still producing my new record and working with other songwriters, and I'm pretty sure I worked most of the year last year.

Peter McCully: So you could take next year off?

Lance LaPointe: Oh, you gotta make money. BC stands for bring cash.

Peter McCully: I know. I did want to ask you though, about the very first night that you played as the lead singer for BTO. The first night you're out, or the first night that you remember being out, standing in front of the microphone, looking out at the audience, what was running through your mind?

Lance LaPointe: The first night that I actually got hired for, it was like a trial, and it was before Victoria. Victoria was when I had the position. I had six trial dates down in the States and we started in Reno. I was nervous. I'm playing bass and singing most of the songs. I was singing the Guess Who songs—"These Eyes," and "She's Come Undone"—and I'm singing "Let It Ride" and all the hits from BTO. And of course Randy sings his songs too, but I could kind of pick up most of it. You know, there was a big weight on my shoulders. We show up at this place in Reno and it was amazing. There was tons of people and I'm like, I've gotten my training, I'm learning how to breathe. And thank God for Jan Cooper, my vocal coach, brought me through a lot of the stuff. And I made some phone calls to my mom. I'm like, "I can't believe this. I'm freaking out." "You're gonna be good, Lance. Don't worry about it." I was on tour for the first time and hadn't even rehearsed with the drummer and the guitar player. I only rehearsed with Randy and Tal and Coco. And so I'm meeting these guys for the first time. "Hey, I'm the new singer, I guess." "Hey, let's go." We do the show and my good friend Brent Knutson, who's on guitar, comes over to me and when we're playing on stage he's like, "Pretty cool, huh?" And I said, "Yes." And it was just the right thing to say. Just alleviated enough. Yes, okay, it's only rock and roll. So I finished the show and I think I did a pretty good job. Randy was happy. Everyone gets off stage and I just took a moment to look around and go, "Holy crap, this happened." So I was the last one off stage and I go past my sound guy and my monitor guy and they're like, "Awesome job, man. You did great." I go out towards the hallway where the green room is and I look in the doorway and it's dark, right? And, but behind the doorway it's all light. And there's Randy just standing in the doorway and he said, "I bet you your mom and dad are proud right now." And he gave me a big hug and I think I cried for 30 milliseconds, sucked it up real quick. And then we talked about the show and it was an amazing thing. We're a true band. We talk about getting better all the time, things we need to work on. At his age, he's just killing it. He's just smart as a whip and he is so talented.

Peter McCully: I did want to ask you about that. Randy Bachman is in his eighties and still touring hard, wore out a couple of young guys like yourself this past year. In fact, he and Burton Cummings are doing a Guess Who reunion next year on top of the BTO tour they just completed. What have you learned about longevity in the business from Randy Bachman?

Lance LaPointe: I think Randy's very blessed to have hits in the sixties, and then when he left Guess Who and wanted to start something with his best buddy Fred, then they had more hits. That doesn't happen very often. It takes a lot of perseverance and he's always writing. He's probably sitting at home right now writing a song. I think I learned that you have to be diligent with anything that you do, and he's like, "Well man, I got some good luck, so I might as well keep it going." And for him to bring a small guy like me who didn't really have a name, it's like I got a two and a seven suited. I'm all in on Lance LaPointe. That's what he did. He took a chance on me and I really strive to do the best I can to make sure that he's happy because it's his legacy really. Of course, I'd like to have hit songs like that too, but hey, this is an amazing opportunity and he's a great guy.

Peter McCully: You've gone from local clubs in Vancouver to the indie rock scene to award-winning original music of your own, tribute bands, touring with BTO. Looking back, what's been the most meaningful or surprising part of this musical journey so far? Because it's not over. What excites you most about making music?

Lance LaPointe: I think what excites me about making music is just the chance that you don't know what's happening. I love how you can go into the unknown. I don't think about my bills or problems. I know it's a 90-minute show, but they're the best 90 minutes because I'm not thinking about anything except for just delivering the song. And so I think from anything that I've learned from music and from being in this band is just to enjoy it because time is short. I've lost friends and family members and it's very rare that you get a chance to just feel people. And when there's 25,000 people all smiling at you and going, "Yes," it's not like a powerful feeling. It's more of a connection. It's like, okay, we're all here. It doesn't matter what religion you believe in or politics, it's here we all are, and we're only here for a split second, like in the whole scheme of things. So I've learned to just take note and just live in the moment.

Peter McCully: Lance, you've had success with the Lance LaPointe Band and yourself as a singer, songwriter, producer. I understand that you've just recently redone a tune that you did a number of years ago.

Lance LaPointe: Yes, I had some success with a song called "Tonight." I did a video for it and released it just locally. The radio station played it and people started requesting it lots. I ended up getting a considerable amount of radio play for an independent artist unsigned. That was a few years ago now, but I always loved the track, but I didn't like how it was recorded. So I got together with a good producer named John Ellis and he is the master, and I've got a country vibe. I love country music. My mom was a country singer, country blues, so I wanted it to sound less poppy and more country. It's all about just falling in love and it's actually a little bit based on my life. When you get with a girl when you're younger and the dad doesn't like you and my dad doesn't like her, you know, the families don't agree, for some reason, there's the passion and the love and the stride to keep moving forward. For some powerful reason, people fall in love. It is basically a song about disregarding what everyone else thinks and just going and jumping in both feet. That's a nice song. It talks about summertime and driving and it's a good roll-your-window-down, crank-up summer song.

Peter McCully: That's Lance LaPointe, "Tonight," as we chat here on The Pulse podcast. Before we go, I did wanna ask you about wearing those many hats, the musician, promoter, producer. How do you think understanding the business side of music has helped your career and what advice would you give to emerging artists about that?

Lance LaPointe: I was lucky in the fact that I have a very active mind. Yes, I could be a bass player, but I might as well learn how to play guitar too, and might as well learn how to play drums. 'Cause if I learn how to play all those, then I could just play on my own demos. I don't have to hire musicians and then I might as well learn how to sing. I was always expanding. For artists these days, especially with the internet and everything's digital and AI's coming in now and people are making music on AI that are becoming hits, which is a whole other podcast—but I would advise people that are wanting to get into the music, to get a computer, learn how to record yourself and start a little site. Get a Spotify page and just keep producing music. Content is everything. So if someone goes, "Oh yes, this guy's got another song on, man. He records a lot of songs." I have over 400 songs and I've released maybe 25. Like when I feel like, "Oh, I haven't released anything," I'll grab an old song and maybe bring it to life. So learn as much as you can. Just like anything like driving—you want to be a good driver, so you gotta learn how to look left, learn how to drive stick, learn as many things as you can. So just be out there taking care of business.

Peter McCully: Yes, you just gotta take care of business all the time, every day. I resisted saying that for the whole interview. Thanks for your time, Lance.

Lance LaPointe: Thank you so much. It's been a pleasure.

Dave Graham: What a treat to have Lance LaPointe on the podcast. I appreciate how he feels about his time on stage. Do you know those 90 minutes when the rest of the world just disappears? That's magical right there. I wish for all of us in the coming year that we each find our own version of those 90 minutes where we're truly present and alive.

Peter McCully: Lance's journey from singer-songwriter to touring with a legendary rock band is inspiring. His passion shines through it all. Lance will be appearing at Char's Landing in Port Alberni in January. Check the details in the show notes.

Dave Graham: Oh yes, I'm inspired now to resolve to go see more live music shows. Well, that's a good one, Dave. Now that I think about it, maybe I should just forget about all the other resolutions and just make one: be more like Lance LaPointe. Enjoy the moment and don't think about my bills.

Peter McCully: Well, I'm not sure that's how you wanna run your personal finances there, Dave.

Dave Graham: Your details are messing with my inner peace, Peter.

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Peter McCully: You'll find podcasts for all tastes at thepulsecommunity.ca. Erin and Jonathan Frazier of the Comox Valley host the F Three Podcast in which they talk NFL and offer a bonus downloadable recipe from Chef Jonathan.

Dave Graham: Parksville councillors, Joel Grenz and Sean Wood have their podcast, Nonpartisan Hacks, and they take their listeners behind the scenes of municipal advocacy work that directly impacts Vancouver Island taxpayers.

Peter McCully: Our Skookum Kid Stories feature Captain Dave and the crew of the Mellow Submarine, and Peter and Gracie the Eskimo dog. Our kid stories now offer colouring pages to go along with each new episode.

Dave Graham: And now you can hear original episodes of Dragnet featuring Sergeant Joe Friday and Marshall Matt Dillon in Gunsmoke in our Radio Archaeology classic radio series. Our next guest is an expert diver. He's a free-diving coach. You know, today I would've thought that coaching free diving would involve a little more than issuing instructions to take a deep breath and go, but there's a little bit more to it than that. Apparently, it's time for Marilyn to introduce our guest.

Marilyn: Campbell River's Kirk Krack has one of the coolest jobs imaginable: teaching Hollywood stars to hold their breath underwater. The free-diving coach spent nearly five years working on James Cameron's Avatar movies, training actors. Avatar Three: Fire and Ash is the latest installment of the series.

Peter McCully: Thanks for making time for us in your busy schedule today, Kirk.

Kirk Krack: Yes, excited to talk with you.

Peter McCully: Let's just dive right into it, shall we?

Kirk Krack: Sounds great.

Peter McCully: I'm sure you get asked this a lot, Kirk, but how does a kid from the prairies end up teaching people to swim and dive?

Kirk Krack: Yes, that's always the question, right? I like to tell people that I grew up in the land so flat you watch your dog run away for three days. And I think growing up in the prairies, you long for what you really don't have. And for me that was great expanses of water. Although my family had a sailboat in the northern reaches of Saskatchewan and we did a lot of sailing. We were a very water-based family. I was always in swimming lessons and that was really important for my parents. So we spent a lot of time at the lake. I remember when I was going through the beginnings of lifeguarding that I got this opportunity to try and breathe on a rig in the deep tank of the swimming pool with this instructor, and for Christmas then that year, my parents got me scuba lessons when I was 14, and it just kinda took off from there and ignited a passion. And in fact, Peter, when I was in Grade 10, I knew that I would have a business at a young age, and I knew it would be aquatics-based, but I had no idea it would lead to the career I've had. So yes, it just—this passion that really grew into an obsession to get me where I am now.

Peter McCully: And I understand you became interested in free diving, which is what you're teaching actors on the set of Avatar, while you were living in the Cayman Islands. That must have been awful.

Kirk Krack: Yes, no, I grew up free diving, although I thought it was called skin diving or snorkelling. I realize now in hindsight that I was going deeper and changing my breathing pattern on the surface so I could go deeper and stay longer and really incurring kind of the risks of breath-hold diving, because I was doing it solo and untrained, but it really wasn't until the mid-nineties where by that time I'd gotten into technical diving and I'd had my second business. I was in the Cayman Islands with my dive shop, and that's when I really got into free diving professionally and then formed my company in January of 2000 and really took off from there.

Peter McCully: As I understand it, you've trained world-class athletes ranging from Olympic downhill skiers to motocross riders and endurance racers, even Tiger Woods.

Kirk Krack: A lot of that was done with Red Bull initially. It started with me training their big wave surfers. That led into more of a motivational breath-hold program, and so that led into skiers like Kjetil Jansrud from Canada and Lindsey Vonn, and then Travis Pastrana, motocross, Tiger Woods, and then a whole gamut of professional surfers, both big wave and classic surfing. It was really a human performance program wrapped around the idea of breath holding and the marine space that touched on the psychology of human performance, and then all of the aspects of breathing and breath hold and down regulation and focus control, and the sports psychology that comes with that. It's been a very interesting career in that regard.

Peter McCully: You've lived all over the world from the Caribbean to the Cayman Islands, but you choose Campbell River as home. What is it about the north island waters that keep drawing you back, especially when you have and you could live anywhere in the world?

Kirk Krack: That's a really great question because I've lived in the Caymans twice, really exceptional times there and fond memories and warm, clear, deep crystal blue waters, which were amazing for diving. But certainly Canada is my home. It's where my family is. My parents moved to Campbell River years before I did and my family. Really, it was a way when my daughter, Kyla, was born to just get close to the grandparents. My parents live a 20-minute walk away from us now. My job is really mostly outside of Canada now. Everything I do. So for me, it didn't really matter where I lived in Canada, as long as I could get to an international gateway in one short flight. I really love the island. The diving here is so amazing. It is world class. Jacques Cousteau at one point ranked it third best in the world along with Rodale's Diving Magazine at the time. And so it really just is incredible world-class diving. The landscapes and the hiking and skiing and everything is rolled into one package here and to be in such an incredible country and afforded all of the amazing things we have here. So, you know, very lucky in this regard.

Peter McCully: You mentioned Jacques Cousteau. I met his son on the Calypso in my teens in Halifax growing up. Was he an inspiration for you?

Kirk Krack: Absolutely. Anyone in my generation, we grew up on the adventures of Jacques Cousteau in the underwater world and all of that. Even though growing up in Saskatchewan where that wasn't really accessible like everyone else, especially in the States, had access to it on TV, he was this incredible explorer. You long to be like him and just have those adventures. Was never lucky enough to meet him. But I've met his son and grandsons and a lot of the family. They're amazing people and it's a fantastic legacy and certainly we owe a lot to Jacques Cousteau in where we are today in underwater exploration.

Peter McCully: We're going to talk about Avatar, but this is not the first movie you've worked on. I understand you worked with Tom Cruise, who is pretty well known for doing his own stunts in his movies.

Kirk Krack: I worked on Mission: Impossible – Rogue Nation teaching Tom Cruise and Rebecca Ferguson. There was a very significant scene there where his character, Ethan Hunt, was diving in what was essentially a hard drive under the water, and he had this idea for a really long breath-hold scene with no cuts to amaze the audience. That was that first time Hollywood came calling, so was lucky to do that. Working with him is incredible. I mean, he does his own stunts as everyone knows, but the guy is the consummate professional and really dedicated when he wants to do something. That was the first movie and then others came calling.

Peter McCully: I remember that scene from that movie. I have to tell you, that made me pretty uncomfortable watching it. How long were these actors going without drawing a breath?

Kirk Krack: Some of our longer scenes were about four, four and a half minute range. Although in training we would go longer. On average, you would probably run a scene at least three minutes long and then have to recover from it and breathe up and reset to do it again and again. Sometimes they're in the minute and a half to two minute—they're good long scenes, especially when you look at the energy expenditure behind it. And it's one thing to do a breath hold and to be motionless and what we would call static apnea face down at the surface. And it's another to have a high metabolic rate doing a lot of action where you're producing a lot of carbon dioxide and using a lot of oxygen. Some of the things I brought into that to help that along was something I developed called technical free diving. That's the idea of using oxygenated mixture. So in fact, we would use it like a 50% nitrox or a 50% oxygen mix to really remove any risk of hypoxia or what we know as a varying degree of lack of oxygen, which could ultimately result in unconsciousness if the breath hold isn't done correctly, too long or too deep or too hard without any oxygenated mixtures, just using straight air. In training, he did a six and a half minute breath hold. So that was really quite incredible.

Peter McCully: Well, it is Mission Impossible.

Kirk Krack: Yes, no, absolutely.

Peter McCully: And you yourself have been in a movie. I really need to know how you got to be a stunt double for Batman.

Kirk Krack: Oh yes, that was Suicide Squad. So I was training Margot Robbie. Her character was Harley Quinn. In Suicide Squad, there was this scene where the Harley Quinn and the Joker in this pink Lamborghini crashes into the river, and then Batman swims down and saves Harley Quinn. She's kinda punched through the front windshield. So I was there to train Margot Robbie for this. And as I was training, the second unit director and the stunt coordinator were asking me if I knew a good free diver with my jawline and about six-two. And I said, "I know a couple of people, I'll get back to you tomorrow." And when I showed them, they were like, "No, that won't work." They said, "How would you like to do a stunt?" The interesting thing at this time is most of the people on the movie didn't know that Batman was gonna be in this sequel. It was the secret thing. They said, "How would you like to be Batman in a stunt?" And I thought, "Are you kidding me? I'll go and get an operation to get leg extensions if I gotta be six-two." And the really cool thing was I got sent to the back lot to door 27 or whatever it was with the secret password knock. And I got in there and there was the Batman costume, and I had to sign another non-disclosure agreement to not even divulge to the crew. And so I got to try the costume on—but you're looking at yourself in the mirror, all muscled up looking like Batman, right?

Peter McCully: Yes.

Kirk Krack: It was a pretty special thing. I ended up being Batman in that underwater sequence where effectively I punched out Margot Robbie as Harley Quinn and then swam with her to the surface, so it was a lot of fun.

Peter McCully: James Cameron is known for epic movies, obviously, like Aliens, Titanic, Terminator. How did you two meet?

Kirk Krack: It's a fun story. So I was at Vancouver International. I had already gone through immigration. I was on my way to the US to LA and I was at Starbucks and I was waiting for my coffee and I saw him in an entourage walk by and I thought, "Oh my God, I have to go introduce myself. I have to meet him. This is like one of the world's foremost underwater explorers." And he had just finished doing Challenger Deep in a submersible to the deepest parts of the world, Mariana's Trench at 10,900 metres and some. By the time I got my coffee, I couldn't find him and I thought, "Ah, opportunity missed." As I got onto my flight to LA, sure enough, who's in C1A and B, but Jim and his wife. So I go back to my seat and I take out a business card and on the back of it I started doing bullet point form of some of the highlights of things I've done. Like trained seven athletes, 23 world records in free diving and trained Naval Special Warfare and special operations groups and the movie, The Cove, and all of these little highlights of my career. And it really took me about half the flight to get the courage up. I actually got up two times and then sat back down 'cause I was too nervous. I figured I'd go up there and he'd be like, "Can't people leave me alone?" and make a fool of me. Eventually I got up and I started walking and I got to him and I held out my business card and I said, "Nothing ventured, nothing gained. My name's Kirk, I'm a free diver." Right away he was like, "How long can you hold your breath?" And from there we talked for the next 15 minutes about free diving and underwater scooters and The Cove and filming and all these different things. And then eventually the flight attendant kicked me back to steerage class. I wondered at that point if he kept the card or if he was just a nice guy and threw it in the back of the seat in front of him. And then about a year and a half later, I got an email from a friend I had worked on a project with who had worked on Challenger Deep with James Cameron. And the email said, "Answer your bloody phone. James Cameron's trying to call you about the Avatar sequels," and I'm in the middle of the South Pacific in a place called Chuuk Truk Lagoon, where 50 ships of the Japanese fleet during World War II were sunk in three days, and I'm doing technical scooter free diving. I'm breathing oxygenated mixtures, that breath holding on a scooter down to 70 metres, 230 plus feet, doing six plus minute breath holds. And I thought the coolest excuse I could give to James Cameron for not answering his call was like, "Sorry, I'm in Truk Lagoon technical scooter free diving." So anyway, I got back and about two weeks later I was in Malibu in his living room. He was telling me about the Avatar sequels, how number two was gonna be a 60% water film. Number three, one out right now, Fire and Ash, was gonna be 30% water and then four and five should they get made would be about 15% water and the big epic scenes. He was telling me some of the problems they were having 'cause they were shooting in their performance captures bubbles in the water. "How would I take care of this?" And I said, "Let's just train everyone in breath hold, the film crew, the grips, like everyone, let's get rid of the bubbles altogether because you're telling me about characters that are free divers. That's simple. While we're training them, let's train the crew as well." I left that meeting with him telling me, "Well listen, you're the man. Job's yours if you want it." I started on Avatar, what was supposed to be a two-month gig to me and five of my instructors training all the cast and crew for two months. And the thing went on for over five years. I lived two and a half years full-time in LA, commuting back home on the weekends and bringing my family down at that time. And then spent another couple of years, three months at a time living in New Zealand, finishing off. So it was an amazing experience 'cause we shot both two and three. So Avatar: The Way of Water and now Avatar: Fire and Ash at the same time. What was interesting is from watching the movies, you are shooting stuff, but you're never really sure where it fits in the story. So it's amazing to watch the movies and then recognize the scene you worked on and it was amazing. Kind of high point in my career.

Peter McCully: Can you explain how the computer technology works when you're making a movie? I watched some of the video of the creation of the second Avatar, I believe it was, and you see the actors swimming around in suits and they've got ping-pong balls attached to them. And then in the theatre you see a whole new layer of the character that's been created.

Kirk Krack: So they do what's called performance capture. There's the idea that the actors, if their character is a Metkayina or the Na'vi or whatever, they're not a human character, that they wear these dotted suits and the dots give you an XY access in 3D space, and that the distance of those dots, the computer calculates and knows it's a certain character and then they apply the skin to it. In the past what happened was you created an animation, a character swimming, and then you took a video of the actor's face of them saying things, and then you put it on the body. But Jim and John Landau and Disney, ostensibly Jim, wanted all the performance, the moves, the emotions, the voice, the face. Everything. What you see on the screen is the actual actor, their movements in 3D space on a stage doing what they're doing. That's normal. When we look at the land portion of shooting Jim in doing the sequels, especially Avatar: The Way of Water, and then in Fire and Ash and so on, wanted to do performance capture in the water. So we had seven different tanks. I worked in these specially built tanks and we had dotted suits and we did everything in the water. Watching the movie, when you see Zoe Saldana or Kate Winslet or any one of the kids' characters diving and doing whatever they were doing, that breath-hold dive, they were in the water doing that action. Really, it allows the truth of the character to come out because the real physics of the world had to ring true to the audience because the amazing thing about Avatar is it happens in our reality. It just happens in the future on another planet. This isn't the Marvel universe. This isn't where people fly and lasers come out of people's eyes, right? It's not fantasy. It's our reality. So the real physics of the world needed to translate, and that was an important thing. And so that's why Jim took the route of doing performance capture in the water, even though it was harder and more expensive. When you look at it on screen, it looks real because it was. Simply the background and the character skin is put onto them. It was really a feat of movie-making magic in history, in being able to do performance capture underwater like that. We're all very thankful because when you watch it, it's just amazing on screen.

Peter McCully: There is nothing like it. When you see it on the big screen, it is just visually stunning. I know you probably can't tell us much about Fire and Ash. I guess we can expect more of the same.

Kirk Krack: What I can tell you, Peter, is that there was more water scenes in it than I expected, and they are grand and epic in scale. It just blew my mind. Fire and Ash is the best Avatar yet. The story's amazing, the new landscapes that you get transported into, the story's fantastic and I'm really impressed with it and excited for my friends and the audience to go and see it because it is truly the best Avatar yet. Everyone will love it, I believe.

Peter McCully: I know your daughter, you've mentioned that she had been back and forth to Los Angeles with you. She got to play a stunt double in one of the scenes in one of the movies. Is she in the third movie?

Kirk Krack: She was prepping to double for Trinity Bliss. Kyla and Trinity are about the same age. They both started on it when they were like seven years old. And so there was this opportunity where we didn't know if Trinity at the time was going to be able to do some of the breath-hold scenes. So my daughter, it was proposed that maybe she could double for Trinity, and so for several weeks Kyla would come to LA and train in the tanks and train to do the scene. So ultimately Trinity was able to do the scene. Kyla did work on Avatar, get the movie experience. She was eight years old at the time, making her minimum SAG rate, which made it a little hard to explain why her allowance was so small compared to her movie pay. Certainly a lot of special memories for sure.

Peter McCully: Kirk, I know that ocean conservation is near and dear to your heart. What do you hope audiences take away from Avatar in terms of the message of ocean conservation?

Kirk Krack: That's the great thing about what Jim's doing with the Avatar sequels. There's a lot of themes in it, and certainly not just ocean, nature conservation in general, be it the forests or the oceans, or be it the diversity of people. And I hope they look at it and understand that we do live on a little blue sphere. For the most part, we call it planet Earth, but when 73% of it is water-based, we really should call this planet Ocean. Although it seems huge to us, it is small in the grand scheme of things, and it is fragile and we do have effects on it, and those effects might not immediately affect us. But it does affect future generations in that we do have a responsibility to try and find some symbiosis, some harmony in living on this planet with nature and together. Hopefully that's the themes that people take from watching Avatar as well as just simply in enjoying an amazing story and the action and the visuals behind it.

Peter McCully: Kirk, before we go, I did want to ask you about an organization that you're involved with called DEEP, developing training programs for people who will live in underwater habitats, and I'd like you to tell us about that. To me, it sounds like the International Space Station underwater.

Kirk Krack: You're exactly right, and that's what it is. I started at DEEP almost three years ago. I'm the human performance diver lead, and you're right, we are making subsea underwater habitats, and our goal is to see permanent human presence in the oceans. What I mean by that is with our partners and our clients, we will have enough underwater habitats around the world, regardless of whether one is down for maintenance, one is down for a crew change, somewhere in the world, other people are living at depth underwater and interfacing with the environment, so they live at ambient pressure, meaning the pressure of the depth they're at. There's a moon pool, basically their doorway, and they can put their equipment on and they can dive outside the habitat in the environment around them to do the science. The idea of what they're doing is called saturation diving, meaning they go to depth, they saturate with all of the gases they won't take on anymore. Regardless of whether they're there for six minutes, six hours, weeks or years, the amount of time they have to decompress at the end is still the same. To give you an idea, our first habitat is going into the Florida Keys. It'll be in the end of January. In fact, we just had a launch party for it. Four people will be able to go and live at depths at around 15 metres. The storage depths where the habitat's pressurized to on a reef at about 20 metres, being able to swim 200 metres away and get as deep as 30 to 35 metres and have hours and hours whenever they want to dive at leisure. But that's our first one. Our other habitats will go to as deep as a hundred metres and then eventually as deep as 200 metres with multiple missions and multiple people. We hope to really allow unfettered access for science and research, although we do realize industry needs to be involved as well to make this financially viable. Yes, we're really excited about it. So the habitat is the hardware, but the people in it are really the aquanauts. Aqua: ocean and naut: explorer. So the ocean explorers are really the key to it and how we train them to live, work, and thrive at that depth so that we can understand the oceans better. And just to give you an idea, we are targeting a depth of being able to access up to 200 metres, which is the continental shelf zone, not 200 metres to the surface, including the shoreline is where about 97% of the ocean's bio-density and biodiversity lives. Yet we know less than 20% of what lives there. Right now, Peter, one out of every two breaths you and I are taking during this interview, we owe to that 200 metres to the surface. It's where the vast majority of the world gets its protein from and we know less than 20% of what lives there. One of the things is the idea bio-prospecting, that there are plants and animals in the depths of the ocean that hold the key to certain protein chains that could be the cure to Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, cancers, the next antibiotic drugs, and yet we don't even know that they live there. So that's really what's driving our motivation forward to really explore, because in a way we know more about space than we do of our own oceans. We're very lucky to have a visionary founder who wants it to be about the company and the people and what we're doing rather about him and giving us this opportunity in which to make a transformational change in the 21st century of marine exploration.

Peter McCully: Oh, that sounds fascinating, Kirk. One more question before we go. You have to tell me about an event you had with the premiere of Avatar in Campbell River.

Kirk Krack: Yes, on the 19th, we got all our family and friends together at the 7:30 showing. We all sat and enjoyed Avatar together. I was fortunate to be able to get up and give a little introduction to it before it started to the audience. Some people wondered what was going on for the people who didn't know who I was, but it was really great just to share that moment with family and friends, to see the audience reaction and people loved it and I'm just excited I could share that moment with them.

Dave Graham: Kirk Krack, a fellow Vancouver Islander, and his work on the Avatar films is impressive—training actors to perform authentic underwater sequences. That is dedication to realism, and while that comes with working with James Cameron, who's known for having very exacting standards.

Peter McCully: And with Avatar Three in theatres, we appreciate being able to hear about the incredible work that goes into creating these immersive underwater worlds.

Dave Graham: I was going to add to my list of resolutions, learn to free dive, but after that conversation, maybe I'll compromise and just promise to have more bubble baths.

Peter McCully: Well, I don't think that's really a compromise, Dave, but hey, I wouldn't discourage you from seeking more personal hygiene.

Dave Graham: Are you trying to tell me something?

Peter McCully: Okay, folks, that's our time. We hope you have a wonderful holiday season.

Dave Graham: Do I smell funny? I don't, I don't smell anything. Oh, no, no, no. Wait, I do. I smell cookies. Gimme a second here. Shortbread cookies with and without icing. Ooh, and they're shaped like Christmas trees and snowmen.

Peter McCully: Wait a second. You can tell their shape from the smell?

Dave Graham: It's a Christmas miracle.

Peter McCully: Okay, that's it. We've gotta go. Until next time, we'll see you back here with more stories from mid-Vancouver Island.

Dave Graham: Happy holidays to you and yours. May your resolutions be wise and achievable. And chocolate. I must resolve to eat more healthier chocolate. Ooh, maybe just more chocolate. We'll do, yes, that's good enough. I do hereby resolve to eat more chocolate. Yes. Yes. I like the sound of that. Totally achievable. Meantime, where are those cookies, Peter? Oh, I can smell those cookies are leaving. Peter! Cookies! Wait up!

Rockin' Rhonda: Here comes Peter, here comes Dave, oh listen. Bringing stories, making waves. No missing spin. Tells him hot cascade. So laughs in the insights everywhere. What a treat.

Rockin' Rhonda & The Uptown Blues Band: Here comes Peter, here comes Dave, oh listen. Bringing stories, making waves. No missing spin. Spinning tales in the podcast cave. So to speak. Laughs and insights everywhere. What a treat. Peter and Dave, they're on the mics, all right. Join the ride. It's gonna feel just right.