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Rockin' Rhonda: Peter and Dave, they're on the mics. All right, join the ride. It's gonna feel just right.

Dave Graham: Welcome back to the Pulse Community Podcast. This is where we bring you a variety of stories with emphasis on the people of the mid-Vancouver Island region. I'm Dave Graham.

Peter McCully: And I'm Peter McCully. Well, Dave, the holiday season is here. The craft fairs are well underway. Decorations are going up. Children are composing their letters to Santa.

Dave Graham: And I am trying to remember where I put the Christmas lights from last year. This could be a challenging time for even the most organized among us, and organized I am not. It can all become a little overwhelming, I think, between the craft fairs and the shopping and social events and letters to Santa. Personally, I cope with that by cocooning and treating with heavy doses of shortbread. Mm-hmm. And maybe a few mincemeat tarts and some Christmas cake. Hey, where do you come down on Christmas cake there, Peter?

Peter McCully: I love, love, love, love dark fruit cake, especially when it's been aged with port and, you know, it keeps forever. Like, it never goes bad.

Dave Graham: You know, when I was a kid, my mom's mother used to mail to us both light and dark Christmas cakes every year for Christmas. Even when we lived overseas, Mom kept it in the freezer and we were allowed pieces only with her permission. It was very special. Oh, I just realized that a good part of getting into the Christmas spirit is enjoying the memories of Christmases past. But it's time to look ahead, Peter. We have an accomplished journalist on the show today.

Peter McCully: Indeed we do. Laura Palmer has one of the most popular podcasts in the country, produced here on Vancouver Island from Port Alberni. It's the true crime series Island Crime, and she's just released season eight.

Laura Palmer: My Best Friend, Bree, is the story of a woman who was murdered in March of 2021 at the height of the pandemic. Her body was found at the south end of Beacon Hill Park in Victoria, near Dallas Road. Fairly quickly, police come to the conclusion that this is not an overdose death. This is a homicide. Then we learn that the person who has been murdered is a woman, and her name is Bree Gamble, and she is the focus of the series, and you learn a lot about her throughout the seven episodes of the series.

Dave Graham: Charlene Smith drops by the podcast on behalf of the Parksville Qualicum Community Foundation. She'll be talking about local grants and philanthropy.

Charlene Smith: With as little as $50 or $500, when neighbours have encouragement and opportunity, they can do really big things. This program is unique in that it's not for organizations, it's for everyday community members to step up and create opportunities to build connection. We've supported everything from block parties to emergency preparedness programs in neighbourhoods.

Dave Graham: Anything that promotes healthy communities like that gets my vote. But money counts and it can sometimes take surprisingly little to make a difference. Peter, we have a new contest to unveil.

Peter McCully: That's right, we are offering a chance to win a two-hour self-care experience at what's been rated the number one spa in Canada, the Grotto Spa at Tigh-Na-Mara. It's all about spending some time relaxing and pampering yourself.

Dave Graham: Pampering. Yeah, that's the way to go. I can speak from personal experience having visited this spa on many occasions over the years. This is a prize package for two, and here's how to enter. Go to our website, thepulsecommunity.ca, or our Facebook page, the Pulse Community. That's it. The draw will be made Wednesday, December 17th.

Ian Lindsay & Associates: Ian Lindsay of Lindsay and Associates has played an active role in the local community since 1979. He has been with RE/MAX Vancouver Island's most advanced real estate business network since 1996, marketing and selling residential, rural, strata, recreational, investment, and project development real estate. Ian has received several awards recognizing his exceptional community commitment locally, as well as awards for outstanding performance and achievement from both RE/MAX International and the Vancouver Island Real Estate Board. You'll find true real estate professionals at ianlindsay.ca.

SOS Christmas Program: For more than 55 years, SOS Caring for Community at Christmas program has ensured that local children, youth, adults, and seniors experience the joy of the holidays, the thrill of finding a gift under the tree, the happiness that comes from sharing food that has special meaning. To donate to the SOS Caring for Community at Christmas program, visit sos-d69.com or call 250-248-2093.

Peter McCully: Future guests to the Pulse Community Podcast will include Kristin Nickell of Toastmasters. Kristin will share some insights about the power of public speaking and building confidence. You may find some of the spinoff benefits surprising.

Dave Graham: We'll also be speaking with a fellow Islander about his experience training actors and crew in the Avatar movie series. Kirk Krack is based in Campbell River and he travels the world as a professional diver and diving trainer. He trained actors and crew on free diving techniques for the latest Avatar movie due in theatres in December. Free diving? I don't know. I have a problem with the idea of being deep under water with no access to oxygen. I dunno. Call me crazy.

Peter McCully: How about this instead, Dave? Let's call upon our executive director of Green Room Operations to introduce our first guest. Here's Marilyn.

Marilyn: Welcome, Charlene Smith, the first executive director of the Parksville Qualicum Community Foundation, a certified fundraising professional with extensive experience across Vancouver Island's non-profit sector. Charlene brings passion to an organization celebrating 25 years of transforming lives through local philanthropy.

Dave Graham: Charlene, welcome to the podcast. It's a pleasure to meet you and thanks for coming up for this.

Charlene Smith: Thank you. So excited to be here and get to meet you.

Dave Graham: The foundation has welcomed you aboard as the first executive director. This is really an historic moment as the organization has been volunteer-run for many a year, 25 or more. In fact, it just celebrated its 25th anniversary this past year. For people unfamiliar with the concept, in a nutshell, what's the foundation about?

Charlene Smith: Community foundations are really built on a simple but really transformative idea: to help local people invest in local needs. And when you do that, the whole community becomes stronger. So we are one of 191 community foundations across Canada. We have the Community Foundations of Canada network that really provides that governance, investment, best practices, infrastructure, and a shared commitment for community-driven philanthropy. Here locally, the Parksville Qualicum Community Foundation is governed by local volunteers, an incredible group that I've been fortunate to work with over the past couple of months, who really help shape how we advance the practice of community foundations in our community. There's really three pieces of what we do as a community foundation, which is that we work with donors to create funds. We support local non-profits, and we convene and facilitate philanthropy and conversations around collaboration in the community. So that's really the purpose of our purpose.

Dave Graham: The foundation has grown to now managing over $4.4 million across nearly 30 endowment funds. We need to get into this. Can you walk us through this endowment process, how they work, et cetera?

Charlene Smith: I'll update you even. We're actually close to $9 million in endowment funds. It's very exciting. It was our 25th anniversary last year and we saw amazing community support, and with that came that need for an executive director to come in and really ensure we're stewarding those funds. It's like planting a tree. As the community nourishes that tree, it nourishes the community and supports us over time. And you can look at the foundation as the community's permanent savings fund. An endowment is a fund that a donor or organization can create that will be invested in perpetuity, and the investment income gets dispersed into the community each and every year. That's how we grow those funds. But I think it's important to know as well, it's not the only thing we do. So a lot of people, that's what they know a community foundation to do. But we also offer other types of funds like flow-through and spend-down funds. We do agency funds, we do designated field of interest, donor-advised. We have all these amazing funds to really meet anyone's philanthropic desires and where they're at in their giving journey. The endowment fund is really just that long-term savings piece that we do.

Dave Graham: How much money has the foundation distributed through various programs, say for the past year?

Charlene Smith: In the past year, we've distributed nearly $150,000 in grants, but year-to-year this can change. In 2024, we saw the Oceanside Community Prosperity grants come through. That was a partnership with the province, and so that increased it to closer to $300,000. But since 1999 and inception, we've distributed well over two and a half million dollars into the community.

Dave Graham: The Oceanside Prosperity Fund, let's dig into that, if we can. Focused on poverty reduction and social inclusion, how does that manifest? How does it play out? What's your role?

Charlene Smith: Community foundations really are that central convener or facilitator of philanthropic funds. Because of our local, provincial, and national connections, we get access to municipal, provincial, and federal funding opportunities where we get to bring funds into our community and use our local expertise, knowledge, and connections to disperse them. So the Oceanside Community Prosperity Fund was an example of that where the province was distributing funding. We applied to be one of the communities to receive some, and then we were able to give out nearly $250,000 to local organizations based on those directives of inclusion, poverty reduction. And we had some really great programs come through, anything from supporting Forward House Society to Oceanside Heart and Stroke Recovery to Inclusive Fitness. We're really grateful to be able to disperse those much-needed funds in the community.

Dave Graham: The Neighbourhood Small Grants program is particularly interesting. It puts decision-making power directly in the hands of local residents. I have to say, this one, in particular, warms my heart. Tell us a little bit about some of the grassroots programs this program has supported.

Charlene Smith: It's one of my favourite programs as well because I really believe it is true grassroots community building and shows that with as little as $50 or $500, when neighbours have encouragement and opportunity, they can do really big things. This program is unique in that it's not for organizations. It's for everyday community members to step up and create opportunities to build connection. We've supported everything from block parties to emergency preparedness programs in neighbourhoods to skill-sharing workshops like leather working, stained glass use, and dance workshops, which is really fantastic. We've had the Oceanside Plant-Based Cooking Club come through, an Oceanside Repair Cafe. We find every year we're getting more and more innovative ideas coming to the Neighbourhood Small Grants. We actually just wrapped up our fall application, but we'll be having another spring application coming open in the new year. It's really the heart of the community foundation that it's trust-based, resident-led. The decisions are made by local volunteers. It's really accessible and inclusive, and a beautiful example of what we do.

Dave Graham: Can you speak of a mandate for this particular program? In a nutshell, what it encompasses for someone who might like to apply but don't know whether they can.

Charlene Smith: The Neighbourhood Small Grants program really offers funds to local community residents who are interested in organizing events, workshops, skill sharing, or community gatherings, anything that will build community belonging and connection. And so we support the costs of those, and folks can apply. It's a very simple application. We do it twice a year, and this year we've supported over $15,000 to $16,000 in projects, so it's pretty fantastic.

Dave Graham: Can we talk about the 25 for 25 campaign? What it's about? For someone who might be thinking about giving to this program, what's your elevator pitch as to why you think they should?

Charlene Smith: Sure. The 25 for 25 campaign was released, spurred by our 25th anniversary, and so it was encouraging all community residents to give $25, $250, $2,500, $25,000, and so on, to contribute to continuing the legacy for the next 25 years. And I think a good reminder is that any gift, you know, big or small, can really make a difference. And giving to the Parksville Qualicum Foundation, you're really giving to the long-term legacy and strength of this community, and that was the goal with the 25 for 25. We didn't know what the needs of the last 25 years in this community were gonna be, but we, year after year, have continued to adapt and meet them. Our goal is to be able to do that for the next 25 years and the 25 years after that, and we're inviting community members to help us achieve that.

Dave Graham: If I could get personal for a second here, how did you prepare yourself to be here in this moment, doing what you're doing?

Charlene Smith: I don't know if you're ever prepared for such an important leadership role. I feel a lot of responsibility stepping in as the first executive director. I have an incredible legacy of dedicated volunteers who really made this happen and continue to make this happen for the community. And I am coming in really with a growth mindset to help strengthen the foundation of the foundation. I am here to invest in infrastructure and relationships and set us up for success for the future. Personally, fundraising has been a bit of a calling. I've been doing it since I was very young. I was that kid who was knocking on doors, collecting pledges, doing Jump Rope for Heart. I raised my first $50,000 at 15 for a local program on the Sunshine Coast and ended up doing my degree in Victoria and meeting my mentor Diane Lloyd, who introduced me to the world of fundraising, 'cause I think a lot of people out there don't know that fundraising and philanthropy is a career, not just a volunteer commitment. So I got to really step into my purpose and support a number of organizations over the last few years. When I moved to Oceanside three years ago, I had told my mentor that my dream role would be to work at a community foundation, and the community I lived in, this organization wasn't there yet. But when the job came up, it felt very serendipitous, like I had been waiting for this my whole life, and feel very called to this role and feel like this is really the organization's time and my time to support the Oceanside region in a big way.

Dave Graham: You received the Kyle McMillan Award for community leadership while you were still a student. What was it that got you that award? What did you achieve?

Charlene Smith: That was during my university years, so yeah, I'm an alumna of the University of Victoria Gustavson School of Business, and I was grateful to complete my Bachelor of Commerce with a minor in social justice studies. During my time, like everything I do, I was really focused on community building and bringing people together and making change, and I think that's a thread that has taken me throughout my life. I will credit my mother, if I may. Anywhere I ever was, if I came home with a complaint or an issue, she'd say, "What are you gonna do about it?" She wouldn't just say that. She would then drive me to meetings, help me create a plan, all those sorts of things. And in every stage of my life, and now in my adulthood and career, I have continued to take that approach. It's a peer-nominated award, and so I was just fortunate that the people I was surrounded by really saw the value of that. And I think it really motivated me to continue on this path to serving my communities through philanthropy and part of why I'm here today.

Dave Graham: We're talking about some big numbers and some big plans and wonderful accomplishments, but for the individual person who would still like to make a difference, can you break it down as to what options might be? Well, let's start with that.

Charlene Smith: A lot of reasons folks come to the foundation is for the longevity, flexibility, simplicity, and trust that we provide. Many folks don't have a will or formal estate plan or a strategic way that they're giving. In those situations, people are often surprised to learn that if you don't have a will, your assets will default to the government. And what a beautiful way to change that, to work with a foundation and ensure that those funds will support the community in perpetuity. Legacy giving, giving while you're living, all those options are things that we can work individually with a donor to craft a unique plan that suits your needs. Right now, speaking of needs, the community is really in need of those flexible funds that meet our urgent and ongoing needs such as emergency response. You know, we experienced that wildfire last year and we're looking for donors who will step up to allow the foundation to meet the community where it's at as our needs evolve. We also have our community fund annual grants happening in February again this year, and that's a fund that we are actively trying to build so we can get more dollars out the door to local non-profits doing great work. So I think the best ways for community members to support is to come chat with us about what the community needs are, create a giving plan, and work with us to talk about your legacy and how you might want that to look.

Dave Graham: Where are you?

Charlene Smith: We don't currently have an office. That's something that we're hoping to work towards as a newly staffed organization. I guess I'll put that out there. If anyone has an amazing building or space that they would like to share with the foundation in this region, we are actively looking for space. In that way, with or without space, we will continue to serve the Nanoose to Deep Bay community, and that's inclusive of Errington, Coombs, Lasqueti Island, and the Qualicum and Snaw-naw-as First Nations. So our region is very large, and I think when you hear Parksville Qualicum Community Foundation, you might just think it's those two communities, but we are actually truly serving all of Oceanside.

Peter McCully: It seems like the foundation is just hitting its stride and Charlene's a great addition to the organization. The work of the foundation demonstrates how small actions can have big impacts in our community.

Dave Graham: If you have comments or questions, suggestions or announcements, please let us know. Or you can also share recipes for shortbread or Christmas cake, you know? Mm-hmm. Just saying, there's even an option to send us a voice message. Contact us at thepulsecommunity.ca.

Peter McCully: And a reminder that you can also find us on Apple, Amazon, iHeart, Spotify, TikTok, and YouTube. We're also on Facebook and Instagram.

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Dave Graham: Last week, our expanded podcast family included a football podcast with Erin and Jonathan Frazier from the Courtenay-Comox region. They talked NFL and offered a bonus downloadable recipe from Chef Jonathan, a California carne asada nacho platter. Well, that sounds good. Have you tried it, Dave? Not yet, but I'm willing to try anything once. Well, almost anything. I will avoid anything that smells, looks, tastes, and/or feels funny, or if it induces pain or profuse sweating. Beyond that, I'm pretty open.

Peter McCully: Good to know. New members of the Pulse Community include councillors with the City of Parksville, Joel Grenz and Sean Wood. Look for the latest episode of Nonpartisan Hacks. This week, they're chatting with Teresa Cooper of Parksville Downtown about the future of downtown Parksville.

Dave Graham: Our next guest hosts a podcast about true crime. This is a program that requires a balanced approach between storytelling and respecting the victims and their families. This is a program that honours the lives that were lost by helping people understand the real human stories behind the headlines. Here's Marilyn.

Marilyn: Former CBC producer Laura Palmer of Port Alberni is the host of the podcast Island Crime, a true crime podcast for listeners who love in-depth, victim-focused storytelling. Laura has just launched her eighth season of the highly rated true crime series.

Peter McCully: Thanks for joining us on the podcast today, Laura.

Laura Palmer: Thank you for having me. Happy to be here.

Peter McCully: Congratulations on being an award-winning crime podcast.

Laura Palmer: Yes, I just received the Shelley Fralic Award from the Jack Webster Foundation. I'm really just catching my breath from coming back from Vancouver, accepting that award. It's a big night over there. They have all the journalists from all over BC there, and lots of folks who have been in the business for a very long time, and it's overwhelming, but a huge honour to be this year's recipient.

Peter McCully: I'm eager to learn about what season eight of Island Crime is all about. The new season is just being released and it's entitled My Best Friend Bree.

Laura Palmer: Season eight, which is astonishing in itself. I started this series six years ago with a goal of telling one story, and here I am on my eighth season. My Best Friend, Bree is the story of a woman who was murdered in March of 2021 at the height of the pandemic. Her body was found at the south end of Beacon Hill Park in Victoria, near Dallas Road. I think for a lot of people, the first time they heard anything about it would've been that morning when police are saying there's a traffic disruption, someone, a body has been found, the person is unresponsive. For most people hearing that morning, they may have jumped to a conclusion that, well, there was a homeless encampment nearby. There have, of course, been countless overdose deaths amongst the homeless population, and certainly there is a presumption early on that could be the case here, but fairly quickly, police come to the conclusion that this is not an overdose death. This is a homicide. Then we learn that the person who has been murdered is a woman, and her name is Bree Gamble, and she is the focus of the series, and you learn a lot about her throughout the seven episodes of the series.

Peter McCully: One thing I found a bit different about this particular podcast is that Bree's own voice can be heard throughout the story, and that's not usually the case.

Laura Palmer: Bree is a really beautiful singer. Some of her musical collaborators shared songs with me that I use in the series, one in particular, which I just love and becomes the theme for the series. So you hear her in every episode. But you also hear her in other ways. You'll hear a voicemail that a friend of hers kept because they just love hearing her voice, and that's something I think a lot of us do when a loved one passes away. But I also had so many people share messages and texts with me that she had sent them, notes of encouragement or just confidences about what's going on in her life, that I wanted to, as much as possible, include her perspective in the series. I went to her former partner, Steve, who is the father of her only child, Malia. Steve is the one who first contacted me about this case, and I'll get into that a bit as well. But in terms of her voice, I went to them and said, "Look, normally what I do in these instances is ask someone to give voice to text or an email, but here we are in 2025 and I do have samples of Bree's voice. I do have all kinds of programs that could clone her voice. You could hear her voice read her own words." That was a conversation I felt like I wanted to involve her family in because it can be quite jarring, I'm sure, to hear someone who has passed speaking. They ended up coming back to me and said, "Look, we think it would be weird if it wasn't her voice. Like, why wouldn't we have her voice if you can have her voice?" And so that's what we did.

Peter McCully: The very first line of the podcast, you mentioned that in all the stories you tell, you return to visit the scene of the crime. So perhaps you could tell us about some of those first impressions that stand out for you in Bree's case.

Laura Palmer: The scene of the crime is Beacon Hill Park, a place that will probably be familiar to many people listening. It's considered the jewel in the crown of parks in Victoria. It's large. Part of it is waterfront. Lots of forested areas. There's a place where people play cricket. It's got one of the largest totem poles in the world there. There's a beautiful statue covered in moss, the Moss Lady, that is like a beautiful feature of the park. And of course, there's loads of trails where people walk their dogs and it's just a gorgeous big park. There's also a part of it that's very open, which is down near Dallas Road where people go and they walk their dogs and what have you. That's where Bree's body is found. It's on the edge of the park near Dallas Road, looking out to the ocean in a very open space. And that context leads some of the people I talked to to draw some conclusions about why she is found there as opposed to—I get into this in many other seasons on Island Crime—there's lots of places on Vancouver Island to hide a body if you want it not to be found. Bree is found very quickly the next morning because it's such a busy, open area with lots of people out jogging and walking the dogs and what have you. She's out in the open in what one police officer described to the family as an oddly clean scene. There's no pool of blood, there's no gunshot, there's no obvious sign of trauma. She's fully dressed, and that, of course, is perhaps partly why there is that initial assumption that maybe she is an unhoused person who has had an overdose. But again, that is not the case, and that's clearly led to the police saying to the family, this is a homicide.

Peter McCully: This is season eight. In the first seven seasons, you've visited all of those scenes of the crime. Perhaps you could tell us about some of those first impressions of the various seasons.

Laura Palmer: I do always want to go there because it feels like you don't really get a sense of a place unless you're standing right there. It's so hard to try and really get a sense of how far is that from the parking lot or how deep into the bush were these people. So in every season, that's almost one of the first things that I do, apart from talking to family, is to try and go and just see for myself, because there's things you just don't notice unless you're actually there. I'll give you an example with Michael Dunahee's abduction. I don't know Victoria really well until I was able to go and stand where the playground was, see where the parking lot was, where Michael's family was, the distance they were from him at the time of the abduction, to look around and see, "I've got a witness who's saying they were here. I've got somebody else saying they saw a brown van here." And you can look at it on a Google map and kind of get a sense of it. But it is quite different when you're there and can say, "Oh, there's a rock outcrop there. They wouldn't have been able to see something." So the scene of the crime for me is important, and if I can get there, I will.

Peter McCully: It's not just the geography or the location, it's the feeling that you get, knowing the story and standing there.

Laura Palmer: Absolutely. Ian Anderson, the missing man who is the focus of season seven, to go to his home or the place he's last seen and see where he's at in terms of proximity to the ocean, and to see his beautiful dog that he allegedly walked away from that morning. It just tells you something about, I think, his state of mind and what's going on that morning to be able to stand at his house and take all that in and try and put yourself in his shoes that morning as much as you can.

Peter McCully: I wanted to go back to something that you mentioned, Laura, which was your listeners contact you about potential cases. How do you prioritize those cases that you research, and how do you decide which cases ultimately to pursue?

Laura Palmer: Part of it is, is this a case that I feel like I can advance in some way or at least, if not advance the investigation, reframe or tell a different perspective of. So there's always that. But then again, I don't want to spend my time telling a story where the family really prefers that there be no further attention to a story for whatever reason. And I don't wanna cause harm. Why would I? And there's no shortage of stories. So if, when I start asking questions, the family is saying, "Look, it's just too hard. We don't feel like anything's gonna come of this. We don't see a value in it," then that's it for me. It's not always that clear-cut. I have had instances where one family member really wants something to happen and the other family member doesn't. Think of your own family. People are gonna have different perspectives on things. So in those cases, I just try and walk a line and be as respectful as I can be. And then I guess the other thing is I try not to hit the same note over and over again. For example, so much of true crime is about horrible things happening to women. And that is true. There are a lot of horrible, violent crimes against women. But if I only told those stories, then I would be both perpetuating a stereotype and I would also be ignoring a whole other area of crime and victimhood. So I try to look for kind of differences in terms of the stories as well. In season two, when I looked at the cases of missing men on Vancouver Island, that was a really conscious choice because I had learned that while you might hear about and think about mostly missing women, men go missing more often than women and they're more likely to stay missing. That was a really conscious choice to look at those men in that season.

Peter McCully: Interesting. For those of us who follow your podcast and the various seasons that you've published so far, one of the things that I enjoy is the update information, particularly through the summer or between the episodes or the seasons that you do. You do follow-ups or updates. I wanted to ask you specifically about two or three of those, one being the Kelly McLeod story from Gone Boys. You did an update on that this past summer as well.

Laura Palmer: Yeah, so Kelly is a man who went missing from Campbell River, and I was initially approached by his sister, Laurel McLeod. She is a fierce advocate for Kelly and has just done everything she can to keep the case alive and active in the public eye. Something that I've observed, but also something—I was speaking with the RCMP up in Campbell River and something they said that maybe contrary to what you might think—they actually said they really appreciate how his sister has advocated for him and kept his case in the public eye and kept the RCMP focused on his case. That's a good example of a case where even though his sister really wanted to talk to me, wanted me to include his story in the series, his mum didn't. She was just so traumatized and still so hurt by Kelly's disappearance that she didn't wanna talk to me. And so in the initial series, you don't hear from her. But not too long ago, she got in touch with me and just said, "Look, I'm getting older. I'm gonna make one more trip to the island." She doesn't live on Vancouver Island. "I wanna go to Campbell River and I would like to meet with you and I'm hoping that I'll get to speak with the police as well." So I got in touch with the police and we were able to meet with Kelly's mum and his aunt who had also come over and with the investigating officer on the case. As I was doing that, I also found another new source who alleged to have information about what had happened to Kelly. Pretty good source. I think all of that information and those perspectives are included in an update that I did.

Peter McCully: It's been almost five years since the Nanaimo RCMP first sat down with you to discuss Lisa Marie Young's disappearance, which was the focus of season one. One of your updates this past summer said there's a new lead on the case.

Laura Palmer: The Nanaimo RCMP, I would say at the outset, were super reluctant to talk about the case even though it was decades old, but that has changed now. They have said they see a value in talking to me, and that new leads have come forward in recent years as a result, in part, of the podcast, but also because of the incredible work her family and friends do in the community to keep her story alive with annual marches. And last year there was a beautiful cherry tree planted in her honour in recognition by the city of Nanaimo. So there's a lot going on with that case to keep it alive. And I can't say exactly what is happening, but there have been really quite recently, as in this week recently, some new developments on that case. And hopefully we'll be able to talk publicly about what is happening there at some point too.

Peter McCully: We'll look forward to that because in my opinion, as an interested listener and of course a person in the media, I think that's really what makes your podcast stand out from others, is that you go back, do updates, whether it's season one or season seven, whenever the new information is available.

Laura Palmer: You know what, that is one of the things that I love about the podcast because it's different from other mediums, right? Where a story is written and it's done. This is something that I can keep updating, and there is new information or some fresh lead or perspective comes to me, and then I can update the series. And that wasn't something I actually counted on when I first started doing this. When I was telling Lisa's story, I sat down and I planned out six episodes, and now it's, I can't even remember. I think there's 18 episodes in that season because there is new information and sometimes not something that's gonna really advance the case, but a perspective that has never been told before. For example, in Lisa's case, years after the fact, one of the guys who was with her that night and was at those house parties she attended got in touch with me. He's one of a handful of people who would've been there with her, and that perspective was so interesting and just really filled in some of the gaps and the details of what had happened that night. When I hear that kind of thing, of course, I'm gonna update the series for sure.

Peter McCully: The last thing I wanted to ask you about in this particular interview, Laura, was a fascinating interview, which is available on your website that you had this past year with a former prosecutor in the U.S. Attorney's Office in Washington, D.C. about "no-body, no-crime" cases in connection with several missing person cases that you've been focused on, that you are reasonably certain are homicides.

Laura Palmer: Lisa's case is clearly one of those cases. No one believes Lisa Marie Young is still alive. The police definitely think it was a homicide, and yet here we are without her body. Is it the situation where that's it. Until they find her body, they'll just never be able to do anything? And that was something that was really bugging me. It was one of the last interviews I did with a former detective who had worked on Lisa's case that we got to talking about that. And then when I started researching, I thought, there's this guy out there, and this is his entire focus. He goes around consulting with police teams all over North America and beyond actually, trying to help prosecutors understand that it is possible to go ahead with a case even if you don't have a body. And there have been cases like that in Canada, and who knows, maybe at some point they'll have enough to go forward with Lisa's case, even if they don't find Lisa. I of course still hope, and that expert says, obviously it's much better if you do have a body. But if you don't, it's still possible. I remember one of the things he said can be the most challenging part of it is to establish with 100% certainty that the person is indeed dead. Because of course there are those times when someone goes missing and they're not dead, as has happened in season two, one of my Gone Boys who his family presumed he was most likely dead, turned up alive. That does happen. And so with a no-body case, that is the first hurdle to get over, proving that somebody's dead and not just missing.

Peter McCully: As always, Laura, it's a great conversation. Is there anything you'd like to leave us with today?

Laura Palmer: Yeah, I would just say it's never too late to do the next right thing. You broadcast to many people here on the island and local people in these communities where we all live have information about these cases. Go to the police. If you're comfortable doing that, even if you think it's something small, it might be the thing that helps put together the final piece of a puzzle. And if you can't safely go to the police or you don't want to, for whatever reason, you can always get in touch with me. Laura, at laurapalmer.ca. I listen to everyone because you just never know where that little piece of information is gonna take you.

Dave Graham: Our thanks to Laura Palmer for joining the Pulse Community. Laura's dedication to telling stories with sensitivity and depth is what makes her podcast exceptional, and that's why Island Crime is one of the top podcasts in the country.

Peter McCully: Before we go, a reminder about our Skookum Kid's Story this week as Captain Dave and First Mate Larry the Lobster deliver letters to Santa Claus in the Mellow Submarine.

Dave Graham: Before this story came out, I did not know that Santa maintains an underwater submarine base at the North Pole. That's pretty cool. Oh, and check out our downloadable colouring pages to go along with each new episode.

Peter McCully: And our Radio Archaeology classic radio series this week features an original episode of Gunsmoke starring Marshall Matt Dillon.

Dave Graham: Yes, Marshall Dillon as portrayed by William Conrad who would go on to play the title role in the TV detective series Cannon, which is still in syndication. You'll find these podcasts and more at thepulsecommunity.ca. Well, you know, Peter, with all this talk about shortbread and Christmas cake, I got a hankering for something sweet. Now I say we try to find some sugar plums. Uh-huh. I just looked up what a sugar plum is. Now I want one, maybe two.

Peter McCully: Well, how about this? I have a peanut butter cup that's been in my pocket for just a couple of days. Has hardly any lint on it.

Dave Graham: Hmm. Well, you know, a little fuzz never hurt anyone. What's a sugar plum, anyway? Hand over the candy. Let's go for a coffee. I'll tell you all about it.

Rockin' Rhonda & The Uptown Blues Band: Here comes Peter, here comes Dave, oh listen. Bringing stories, making waves. No missing. Spinning tales in the podcast cave. So to speak. Laughs and insights everywhere. What a treat. Peter and Dave, they're on the mics, all right. Join the ride. It's gonna feel just right.