Ian Lindsay & Associates: Ian Lindsay of Lindsay and Associates has played an active role in the local community since 1979. He has been with RE/MAX, Vancouver Island's most advanced real estate business network since 1996, marketing and selling residential, rural, strata, recreational, investment and project development real estate. Ian has received several awards recognizing his exceptional community commitment locally. As well as awards for outstanding performance and achievement from both RE/MAX International and the Vancouver Island Real Estate Board. You'll find true real estate professionals at ianlindsay. ca.

Rockin Rhonda & The Blues Band: Here comes Peter. Here comes Dave. Oh listen. Bringing stories, making waves. No missing. Spinning tales in the podcast cave. So much laughs and insights everywhere. Peter and Dave, they're on the mics. Alright, join the ride. It's gonna feel just right.

Dave Graham: Welcome to the Pulse Community Podcast. This is our weekly look at some of the stories coming out of the Central Vancouver Island region. This Allow me to introduce my partner in podcasting. His wife told him before this recording session to not try to be too charming, witty, or intellectual, but to just be himself. It's Peter McCully, 

Peter McCully: and he's a guy who likes puppies, thunderstorms, and cupcakes. He doesn't like paper cuts, telemarketers, and whoever just took that last cupcake. It's Dave Graham! 

Dave Graham: And, you know, something else I like from time to time is to do as little as possible. You know, I like taking naps, Peter. I can often overcome the desire to accomplish things in favor of doing absolutely nothing.Peter, though, you seem to be a man of action. Are you able to relax by relaxing or are you uncomfortable doing nothing? 

Peter McCully: I am uncomfortable doing nothing. As a matter of fact, I guess my testament to that would be I've lost 30 pounds in the last year and I try to get to the gym regularly because, you know, as we get older, things just don't work as well as they used to.

Dave Graham: Good for you. 

Peter McCully: Dave, there's been eight health professionals hired. In Parksville Qualicum Beach recently, six of them are doctors, and on this episode we'll meet one of those new doctors, Dr. Edward Aasman.

Dr. Edward Aasman: I really found that quite attractive, what has been done here in BC around compensation of family physicians. One of my colleagues who I knew did come out here prior to me and had conversations and let me know what they were experiencing with the new payment model. I think it really helps support physicians running a good business. Private business in the clinic, and that's a welcome change from what I was seeing in Alberta. Alberta was looking towards that, but I don't think they're quite as advanced as where British Columbia is. 

Dave Graham: Bruce Cockburn has been a fixture on the Canadian music scene for more than 50 years. Holy cow! We talked with him ahead of his shows in Nanaimo and Victoria in March. 

Bruce Cockburn: Once I started really looking into it, there was all this other incredible music in the world. And I just felt like because I didn't have a tradition of my own to honor, and therefore I was free to steal from everybody else's. Again, that sort of eclectic mix grew accordingly, even more eclectic. The right hand of my guitar style is entirely down to mostly American folk music. The left hand has a lot of jazz in it and some other stuff.

Dave Graham: Bruce Cockburn, he started getting recognition right out of the gate after his first album came out in 1970. He won eight Juno awards during his first 10 years as a recording artist and he's won more since and more recently was inducted into the Canadian Songwriters Hall of Fame and Canada's Walk of Fame. I am looking forward to hearing that conversation. 

Peter McCully: I had the pleasure of going to my first Bruce Cockburn concert when I was in high school, actually, in the mid 70s. He played at the Rebecca Cohen in Halifax. A great folk singer, great writer, great guitar player. Dave, the bat phone or the speak to us line is blinking there. We have someone who left a message. Would you do the honors? 

Dave Graham: Oh, I get to push this button? 

Johanna Obourne: Hi Peter and Dave, this is Joanne Osborne from Pancake Pictures. I wanted to let you and your listeners know that we're inviting community members who knew and loved Flying Phil to come forward and share their stories with us.

We're partnering with the Flying Phil Memorial Project and we will be filming interviews on Valentine's Day, so Friday the 14th. And Saturday the 15th at the Village Theater in Qualicum Beach. So on top of being a part of Remembering Flying Mill, everyone who participates will be entered into a draw for prizes, including a framed print of Dog Eagle House's flying fill painting.

If you'd like to be a part of the project and share your story, which we hope you do, please contact me, Joanna at info at pancakeproductions. ca. That's info, I N F O, at PancakeProductions, with an S, dot C A. And we'd love to hear how Flying Phil impacted your life and any stories you have to share. Thanks!

Peter McCully: Flying Phil, quite a legacy in the Parksville Qualicum Beach area, Dave. I remember when the Parksville Qualicum Beach news offices were in downtown Parksville. Phil would come through. Ultimately, on deadline days, we were trying to go press at least once a week and send the place into a real tizzy and everybody loved him.

The staff on three occasions that I remember bought Phil a birthday cake because he always used to come in and announce that today was his birthday. So we bought him a birthday cake. I also had the chance to take his picture a couple of times for a day in the life of Parksville. 

Dave Graham: You know, I don't generally remember the first time I ever saw someone, but I will never forget the first time I saw Phil, and I can't be alone in this.

I did not know him at the time. I just saw this big fellow with his wide arm stance strolling down the sidewalk. Not as if he owned the place, that connotes something else. It was more like he was just simply at home. And he seemed at home everywhere, and he was welcomed everywhere. One other memorable day for me about Phil was when he first called me by name and that's when I felt that I had arrived, that I belonged, and I miss him.

Peter McCully: We missed getting an answer with the last clue for the virtual location of the tickle trunk. I think it had something to do with the snow and the cold temperatures. If you can identify the location, you'll have a chance to win a Thrifty Foods $25 smile card. We did mention that the Tickle Trunk was located in a place where it might be spotted by Cammy. Scotland has the Loch Ness Monster, Lake Okanagan has Ogopogo, and Vancouver Island has Cammy. 

Dave Graham: If you can name the location of Cammy, the name itself is a pretty good clue. It could be worth that 25 thrifty food smile card. Email your answer to contest at thepulsecommunity. ca 

Peter McCully: And if you need a clue, you can refer to Skookum Kid's Story, episode number 8. It took place at the same place you find Cammie. 

Windsor Plywood French Creek: The Pulse Community Podcast is brought to you in part by Windsor Plywood in French Creek, specializing in hard to source interior and exterior home finishing products. Including flooring, doors and moldings, and exterior project materials such as yellow cedar. Windsor Plywood French Creek carries high quality, responsibly sourced products and are committed to providing outstanding value and personalized, one on one service to all of our customers. Homeowners, do it yourselfers, renovators, builders, designers, craftsmen and contractors. Regardless of the type or size of your project, Windsor can help you bring your vision to life, from start to finish. Let Windsor Plywood and French Creek help you with your renovation, new build, or building project. Visit them online, or call 752 3122. 

Peter McCully: Future guests on the Pulse Community Podcast include Trish Widdershoven, who is the chairman for a fundraiser for a new news place. They have a lot of upgrades they need to do to the building in the near future, so we'll chat with Trish about that. We also have Jeremy Perkins of the award winning French Press Coffee Roasters in Parksville and Qualicum Beach. Jeremy will talk all things coffee. As well, he changed Dave's world with just a couple of cups of special brews, so you'll want to listen to that. We're also going to spend some time with a man known for making friends wherever he goes. Valdy of Salt Spring Island has upcoming performance dates on Vancouver Island. He'll join the Pulse community podcast in the coming weeks. 

Dave Graham: We Vancouver Islanders are sometimes prone to gloating about the fine weather we generally get. Especially during winter when talking with friends and family from, say, I don't know, Ontario or Alberta. But we finally got a taste of season appropriate weather recently with a double dose of cold and light. We were still going to go out anyway. We were going to change from our shorts to our pants and venture out to find out what folks think about Valentine's Day and, eh, but it's snowing again and we're Islanders, Peter. We've adapted. 

Peter McCully: Is that an icicle on your nose? 

Oceanside CWeed: Oceanside Cweed. That little pot shop is Parksville's first licensed cannabis store. Since April 2022, Cweed is under new ownership. With a product expert at the helm, that includes two decades of retail mastery and seven years in the cannabis industry, Seaweed is a legacy in the making, with cannabis products regulated by Health Canada. Community minded Cweed is a member of the Parksville Chamber of Commerce, the Parksville Downtown Business Association, and the Retail Cannabis Council of British Columbia. Those 19 plus can drop by the store at 154 Middleton Avenue next to Tablet Pharmacy. Open Monday to Friday, 9 a. m. to 8 p. m. Weekends and holidays, 9 a. m. to 7 p. m. Visit the online store at cweedoceanside.ca 

Speak to us!: If you would like to be a part of the podcast, you can join Peter and Dave through the speak to us link. You can literally leave the guys a voice message, or if you prefer, just send a text, click on the speak to us link to join the conversation. You'll find the links in the story notes and on the website, thepulsecommunity.ca. 

Dave Graham: A recent joint announcement from Parksville and Qualicum Beach came as hopeful news to people in need of a family doctor. We have someone in the green room now who is ready to talk about this, and I bet he didn't even touch the cookies we left out, Marilyn.

Marilyn: In the green room is Dr. Edward Eisman, who is one of eight healthcare professionals to be recruited and moved to the Parksville Qualicum area. Dr. Eisman moved from Rocky Mountain House, Alberta, where with his wife they operated a family farm, and bred and raised horses. 

Peter McCully: Welcome to the podcast today, Dr. Aasman. Well, thank you for having me. 

Dr. Edward Aasman: Could you tell us what motivated you to make the move to British Columbia from Alberta? The move from Alberta to British Columbia was, was a bit multifactorial. Some of it relating to some changes in my personal life and others were related to change in opportunities for my professional life as a physician as well.

Peter McCully: I understand you were pretty heavily invested in the area in Rocky Mountain House, Alberta. You grew up there, you went back there to practice as a doctor, and you and your wife owned property there. 

Dr. Edward Aasman: I was there pretty much my entire life, excluding my learning out of the University of Alberta. I undergrad in my medical career. I did all my training. in Edmonton. So Rocky was a great place to raise a family, great place to practice. And it certainly was rural, so you did pretty much everything in a smaller community such as that. And the practice was very diverse. And just after 26 years, I was looking for a little bit of a change and a different kind of a lifestyle. Long nights of calls were getting to be quite old. 

Peter McCully: Well, let's talk about the personal life changes first. I understand that you and your wife raised horses and had a large farm in Alberta. 

Dr. Edward Aasman: Yeah, we had a large equestrian facility. My wife boarded horses, trained horses, bred horses, and taught lessons. We did that as a family with my two daughters, and eventually they grew up on me and moved on to university, which mostly prompted change in that part of our life. And it was time to sell the farm and then make a decision of where we wanted to live from there. Are the two daughters going to be doctors by chance? One of them is interested in being a doctor, the other not so much. Both are actually attending University of Victoria. Which we kind of followed our oldest daughter out, just to be closer in there.

Peter McCully: So when you moved to British Columbia, did you go looking for an area that could accommodate horses and your rural lifestyle? 

Dr. Edward Aasman: Yes, definitely needed some place for horses. My wife was not getting it, riding herself, just the more of the business side of it, of having a facility for other people. And so mostly we look towards Vancouver Island. I think that's what my wife and I had agreed on would be a nice change. And she knew the island and the area from some of her family members. And it's a place where I think most Canadians visit once in a while or multiple times in their life. Certainly I have, and it's a fantastic place. The big draw was when we took my daughter to visit the University of Victoria before she started and certainly the milder weather. I enjoy kayaking and biking and we went out to the lakes here and they're all open and you could go kayaking and when I returned to the lakes were still frozen solid. 

Peter McCully: What impact has this move had on your family and your personal life? 

Dr. Edward Aasman: It's been quite lovely. I, uh, enjoy gardening and cycling and kayaking. So I feel like this is the right place for all those activities. So I have a lot to learn on how to prune fruit trees. And, uh, it's a different gardening season here than it was in Alberta. It was much shorter. You could have frost in any month of the year where I come from. It certainly is quite nice to grow your own food here, and it's something I really enjoy doing, and I have not looked back.

Peter McCully: Dr. Aasman, you are aware of multiple groups who are promoting the area, trying to recruit healthcare professionals to the PQB area? 

Dr. Edward Aasman: My wife, this was something that she was really, really wanting to do for the MOO, had researched the area and came across the Oceanside Division of Family Practice, and they had a fantastic recruitment video that we watched together multiple times and really piqued our interest for the area. And certainly the recruitment and support staff were fantastic from the Oceanside Primary Care in helping us find a practice and get comfortable and set up. 

Peter McCully: Do you have your own office, or are you in with another group of doctors? 

Dr. Edward Aasman: There's two of us in the practice. The biggest change was in Rocky Mountain House, we just had one clinic we all worked together, both covering the primary care side and the hospital side. And certainly coming here, there's piles of individual smaller clinics rather than a larger clinic to join into. 

Peter McCully: Let's talk about the medical systems for a moment. Does the workplace culture differ between hospitals and clinics in British Columbia and Alberta? 

Dr. Edward Aasman: That's a little more tricky one. I think one of the things you're seeing in British Columbia that's a little bit different from Alberta is And it's a little bit more investment into primary care, both delivered by family doctors and nurse practitioners.

It seems to be more positive here than what I was experiencing in Alberta, which is really quite welcome. 

Peter McCully: And what about wait times and specialist access compared to the two provincial systems? I'm interested to know if there's, from your perspective, a difference there. 

Dr. Edward Aasman: I think they're very similar when you look at the wait times. That's probably across Canada. I think the provinces really work hard to try and have at least similar access. Most of what I experience with the move is just trying to understand where are you for patients to who they are and what services are presented in different locations. Not dissimilar from Alberta when you look at the smaller referral centers such as Red Deer, Lethbridge, Medicine Hat compared to the larger urban centers of Edmonton and Calgary and what's offered in the different locations for More specialized health care.

Peter McCully: And you were in Rocky Mountain House, Alberta, which I understand is about the size of Parksville Qualicum Beach. 

Dr. Edward Aasman: I think when you look at the overall population size, they're quite similar. The town size might be a little bit smaller and a much bigger area. I did actually travel to clinics. Our three First Nation communities, which was a 240, 260 kilometer round trip for the day. And certainly everything here is much closer together. But it's still quite a wonderful place to practice. 

Peter McCully: Did you also notice a difference in patient demographics and health needs between Alberta and British Columbia? 

Dr. Edward Aasman: No, I would not say so. I mean, the health needs and patient therapeutics are quite similar. Certainly in Parksville Qualicum is still is a little bit more of a senior's population since being here right practice, in my mind is still reasonably well rounded throughout the ages of patients. 

Peter McCully: The BC government made some changes, some substantial changes to revising the provincial billing system for doctors and their compensation structure. Obviously, you took a look at that when you were leaving Alberta. Does the two compare? 

Dr. Edward Aasman: No, I, I really found that quite attractive what has been done here in BC around compensation of family physicians. One of my colleagues who I knew did come out here prior to me and had conversations and let me know what they were experiencing with the new payment model. I think it really helps support physicians in running a Private business in the clinic, and that's a welcome change from what I was seeing in Alberta. Alberta was looking towards that, but I don't think they're quite as advanced as where British Columbia is, and certainly hearing the news of what's going on in Alberta primary care, they're making some similar type of changes, but it's not very clear what direction they're going from my understanding yet.

Peter McCully: Doctor, have there been any challenges in adapting to BC's medical system from Alberta? 

Dr. Edward Aasman: Not really. No, it's the same type of health care that we have. Some of the differences are in coverage for medications. We see a bit of a difference in coverage for seniors because it's more based on income needs rather than just being a senior, which we saw in Alberta. But most of that is really quite similar. 

Peter McCully: Doctor, how does the higher cost of living in British Columbia impact Patients health care decisions, do you think, compared to Alberta? 

Dr. Edward Aasman: You know, I have to be honest to state that I haven't seen a big change, really, in cost. I think the biggest change would be the housing cost. Otherwise, the cost of living, I don't see as much. I mean, it might be that I'm more here on the island where things are closer, so I'm not really noticing a huge thing with the fuel prices. I'm not having to travel very far here. I find everything accessible and local, so I find that quite nice. But certainly I think with the housing costs always is a burden towards patients and I've had some patients express that.

Peter McCully: During COVID, mental health education and how mental health is addressed. came into the spotlight, I wanted to ask if there's any contrast you noticed in how mental health is being addressed between Alberta and British Columbia. 

Dr. Edward Aasman: That's a harder one to answer because I think that's one of the ones where being new here, I'm kind of uncertain where patients go to. So far, I've seen patients at least be able to access help for mental health and certainly as a family doctor, my role is to provide mental health support as well for my patients. So hopefully I give them some of the mental health support they need and if they need something shorter than that could be found for the patients, although it is a little difficult, but Alberta wasn't less difficult either.

Peter McCully: What surprised you most about practicing medicine in British Columbia or in Parksville, Qualicum Beach in particular? 

Dr. Edward Aasman: I think the biggest change for myself was coming from a place where part of my role was providing emergency service and hospital service. Here I'm more focused on providing clinic primary care service and hopefully trying to keep people out of the hospital and keep people well. But certainly my role in Rocky Mountain House had a fairly large component of hospital associated duties as well where I'm not seeing that here and it's an ice break. I don't look to go back to a facility type of work for the rest of my career. I think there's a great place in family medicine to try and help our patients stay well and be able to stay out of the acute care needs, hopefully. We won't be able to completely mitigate that, but hopefully that can help them stay well as long as they can. 

Peter McCully: You mentioned you were out here and the lakes were open, but they weren't open in Alberta. Are there seasonal health patterns that differ between Alberta and B. C. patients? 

Dr. Edward Aasman: I don't think there's somewhat seasonal health patterns, but certainly what I find here is that there is a fantastic ability for patients to be outdoors and have rewards of nature for mental health and also for physical health. Certainly, my patients are easier to get out and walk here than I would have experienced in Alberta when it's, you know, minus 20 to minus 40. Most people are indoors and in a smaller center where I was from, but it's limited ability for them to find a place to be active in the wintertime when it's really cold, particularly for our seniors.

I think in the larger urban areas and they might be able to go to some of the larger centers and be able to walk around, but we didn't have that in the smaller communities. So that is really a wonderful thing that the mild weather here affords the population and healthcare needs of us as people are very similar.

The diseases are similar. Trying to keep people well is going to be similar, whether you're in Alberta, whether you're in BC, whether you're, you know, across Canada or across the world. I think that's something that in Canada, we've really lacked our good investment in, primary care provided by family doctors and nurse practitioners, and like with CBT, kind of stepping up and trying to improve that investment in the health of the citizens of BC.

My real belief in family medicine is that, you know, my job is to help people be well, live well, and stay well, whether they're in their working time, whether they're in their retirement time, whether they're young, so that they can have the opportunity to just thrive and excel. I've done a lot of, uh, health leadership through the Alberta Medical Association.

I was president of the section of rural medicine. I was involved in, uh, negotiations with government. And I think the big one that It's probably seen across Canada is that we've really invested in waiting for people to become unwell. So we've got this fantastic hospital systems going across our provinces, across our country, with emergency departments, everything that's really important.

But I think the investment that we make in trying to keep people well and help manage their chronic diseases has not been up to the same level. We're on the level that they probably need and I think that's where government is starting to realize the value of family medicine is that we're always waiting for people to get ill.

That actually gets really, really expensive. I think if you look at most of the cost of the healthcare system has been on that acute care side and emergency side rather than on the primary care side. 

Peter McCully: Thank you for your time, Dr. Aasman. 

Dr. Edward Aasman: Well, you're very welcome and it was a pleasure having this conversation with you. You take care. 

Dave Graham: In all of Canada, Parksville has the highest concentration of residents 65 years of age or older. This is based on Statistic Canada's population estimates from 2022. But regardless of that, an older population does suggest a greater need for medical practitioners. And this, this, as my therapist used to say, why this is a good start.

Peter McCully: Thanks for listening and being part of the Pulse Community Podcast. We're here to tell the stories that mark our lives here on the island. We also have a growing stock of stories for kids. Listen for the adventures of Dave and the Mellow Submarine, along with Peter and Gracie the Eskimo Dog. Follow the links to find our treasure trove of Skookum kid stories.

Dave Graham: Oh, hey, I got a story for you. I was living in Toronto, working in a big time radio station. This is, I don't know, 30 years ago or something. One evening, I was at Ontario Place to bring someone on stage for a musical performance. Ontario Place is an attraction extending over the water of Lake Ontario.

Magnificent place! He used to have a circular stage that rotated in the center of the audience. It isn't there anymore, but it was a really fine facility. I was out there one night doing my emcee thing, then I wrapped up and I wandered into the backstage area afterwards, and I found myself standing near a tall gentleman.

He was facing away from me watching the show, and it was just the two of us there, nobody elsewas nearby. And I glanced up at the guy and I realized instantly, holy crap, that's Bruce Cockburn! And that was that. What? That's it? Well, I stood there trying to think of an opening line, and I thought, Hey, you're Bruce Cockburn, just was not going to cut it.

I ended up walking away, not having said a word to a guy. I admire and really wanted to talk to it seems I couldn't even come up with hello didn't dawn on me until I think quite long after that, I figured out I was unable to speak, not because I was Star Trek, but rather I was rendered mute because I couldn't think of anything to say that would fit with what I thought was my cool image and blurting out gee whiz mister I really like your music just seemed like a vapid thing to say so I didn't say anything.

You know, I'll admit, there was also a part of me that said this guy had found a secluded spot to watch the show and I should just leave him alone to enjoy it. So, opportunity lost. But Peter, you had the nerve to have an entire conversation with the man and Marilyn is ready to set it up. 

Marilyn: In the green room is Bruce Cockburn. The Canadian folk singer has had a unique career spanning over five decades. He has written more than 350 songs on 34 albums and has sold more than 1 million albums in Canada alone. 

Peter McCully: Thanks for taking the time to be with us today, Bruce. We appreciate it. 

Bruce Cockburn: Oh, thank you for having me. It's great to be with you.

Peter McCully: You grew up just outside of Ottawa. How and when were you introduced to music? There's 

Bruce Cockburn: a fair amount of mythology floating around about the various details, but in fact I grew up in what was then the West End, what's now Westboro, which is a trendy neighborhood now, but back then it was just an old suburb. Taking music lessons at my parents suggestion when I was grade five, maybe something like that. I took clarinet lessons for a year. And that was kind of a weird instrument for me, and I switched to something that seemed cooler at the time, which was trumpet. And I played that for three years, and then I got to high school, and then he's a teacher in high school, and I didn't see eye to eye, and so I kind of dropped music altogether.

When I was 14, I found a guitar in my grandmother's attic. It was an unplayable, really, old thing. But it was very exciting to me, and I got so interested in it, seemed like, obsessive with it. My parents came up with the idea that they'd support me playing the guitar if I promised to take lessons. And we're talking here now, this is 1959, and I also had the promise to not grow sideburns and get a leather jacket.

Which were easy promises to offer because, you know, they were in control of my hairstyles in those days anyway. It went from there. I took a couple of years of lessons, and during that time, my musical interests expanded hugely because I was introduced to all kinds of stuff I hadn't encountered before. I mean, I wanted to be like Elvis.

I wanted to play the guitar like Scotty Moore, who played with Elvis. That was my model initially, but then I got introduced to jazz and eventually to folk music and all kinds of other things and all of it kind of went in and created this sort of musical soup that is what I draw on when I'm playing now.

Peter McCully: It is very distinctive. There's elements of jazz and folk and you mentioned Scotty Moore as the guitarist. Were there other guitarists or musical genres that? Shaped your approach to how you play the guitar? 

Bruce Cockburn: Initially, it was the rock and roll guys, like the Richie Valens and Duane Eddy. Those were the exciting guitar things that I was aware of initially.

Then along comes the jazz thing, and there's Wes Montgomery, and a less well known but really great jazz player named Gabor Szabo, who was active in the 60s. And then along came the Beatles, too, and they got introduced to folk music. John Harold, there were bluegrass players, and Doc Watson. I wouldn't call him, uh, wasn't a model particularly, but he's certainly inspirational in terms of what he could get out of a guitar.

There's really like no end to it. Along comes Jimi Hendrix and you, you became an influence and I've had such a very, like in the early days, kind of exposure to so many different styles and approaches to music that it's hard to pick out one influence that's bigger than the others. I went to music school after high school.

I studied composition for a couple of years. If I carried on that course, I would have ended up writing music for large jazz ensembles, which was what I thought I was going to be doing. But then I got captivated by songwriting and things lurched off in another direction. 

Peter McCully: After you graduated high school, you hopped a boat to Europe and became a busker in Paris.

That must have been an education in itself. Probably you have a story or two you can tell us about that time in your life. 

Bruce Cockburn: Yeah, it was a wild, kind of extended summer, basically. I took the boat from Montreal to Norway. It was a Norwegian freighter. It was the last generation of freighters before they switched to container ships.

It's just an industrial ship, basically, that carried 12 of us in quite luxurious conditions. Not all freighters offered luxury, but this one was pretty good. But a small ship, it bounced around a lot on the North Atlantic. It was an adventure right from the get go and it never stopped being an adventure until I got back to Canada and then from there to Boston to go to music school.

I hooked up with a Swedish friend in Stockholm and the two of us hitchhiked to Paris and I ended up connecting with a French trumpet player and an American clarinetist who was on leave from teaching English in Ethiopia with the Peace Corps. This is 1964. You know, the world was a little different than the one we look around at now.

These guys, the two of them, had been playing kind of trad jazz stuff together on the street. In those days, you needed a license to perform on the street and you had to be a Parisian citizen to get a license. It was intended to protect the interests of basically the poor street performers and homeless folks that relied on that for a living.

Then there we were, you know. Somebody found a six string banjo for me to play, which was loud enough to be heard along with the clarinet and trumpet. Terrible instrument, but loud. So we played, you know, some of the stuff that they'd been doing, old kind of ragtime jazz tunes, like really old style. Some of the songs I knew, some Elvis Presley songs and some other stuff.

And we attracted a lot of people probably because we were loud. I don't know if your listeners are familiar with the layout of Paris at all, but Montmartre is a large, not exactly a mountain by our standards, but a pretty big hill in the middle of Paris with a basilica at the top. It's an important religious structure and it's a big staircase that winds up the hill.

It's a beautiful, broad, kind of marble staircase. So we're sitting on that staircase playing in the evening and we had a lot of people gathered around and this young guy, it didn't look like you, it was a uniform, he was just in a sailor suit doing the Charleston around the steps, you know, and all of a sudden there's these three guys standing in front of us.

They looked like thugs and one of them says, let me see your papers. My immediate reaction was. Who the hell are you? Get out of here! Fortunately, the French trumpet player that was sitting next to me, elbowed me because he kind of understood what was going on better than I did. These guys were cops, and they were in plain clothes but one of them had a revolver sticking out of his hip pocket and so it was kind of like, okay, well we're not messing with these guys, whoever they are.

But they were police officers, and they were busting us for playing without a license. They hauled us off to the Walmart police station, which was Kind of like the Dodge City Jail. They had their guns hanging on hooks on the wall. And there were three old women, I presume hookers, in the holding cell at the back of the room that were trading kind of lewd jokes with the cops.

And they kept us there for about three hours and questioned us. And the guy behind the desk, the sergeant, claimed to not believe that I was a foreigner. He thought I had a false passport. He accused me of having a false passport and of being really a Parisian in disguise. I knew he was putting me on, it never seemed very dire or serious, but they let us go after a while and that was kind of pretty close to the end of our run as street performers in Paris, but we had been at it for a couple of weeks by that time and it was a living in a certain sense, 

Peter McCully: You made enough to keep yourself fed, 

Bruce Cockburn: You could, French Fries and $1.98 wine, which is pretty much what I ate. 

Peter McCully: And then from Paris, you went to Boston to the Yeah. Berkeley School of Music for jazz? 

Bruce Cockburn: Yeah, that's right. I majored in composition with guitar as my instrument. I was there for a couple of years and then dropped out and went back to Ottawa and joined a band. 

Peter McCully: The first folk festival that you played solo at was the Mariposa Folk Festival in Ontario in the late 60s. Have you continued to play there over the years? 

Bruce Cockburn: Yes, played Mariposa many times and pretty much all the other Canadian festivals at various points. For summer shows, the festivals are kind of a mainstay because they're really the thing that's happening in the summer. Audiences don't tend to gather in theatres over the course of the summer, so if you're touring, the kinds of the theatre shows and all that will be during the winter months and, or the fall, and the festivals pop up all over the place during the summers and are great ways to get the music out to people.

Peter McCully: Your songwriting, Bruce, often weaves together several themes, including Political commentary and ecology issues as your perspective on social justice issues changed over the years. Do you think? 

Bruce Cockburn: I think it's deepened. I mean, justice is justice. It's not really that ambiguous. We can argue as we do or whether there's actually climate change.

There's no question that there is climate change and it sort of doesn't matter who caused it. We got to fix it. That's the problem. Back when I wrote, if a tree falls, for instance, in the early eighties. I certainly had not been previously aware, as aware as I became around the time I wrote that song, of the destruction of rainforests and what that meant for the world.

Of tropical rainforests, my only exposure to a rainforest was in British Columbia. There's plenty of destruction in that setting too, unfortunately, but It's the vast tracts of tropical forests that are actually part of the climate change picture in a big way that I learned about back in the day. I had heard a documentary on the radio on one of the college stations in Toronto about what was going on in Borneo.

Destruction of the forests, clear cutting. The displacement of the indigenous people that were living in the forest and the dire effects on them, etc. And that kind of is what triggered the song, but, you know, as soon as I started looking into the issue, there was all this other information there, too. And this is like 40 years ago now.

We knew this stuff was happening. And nobody's stopped it. So the perspective changes. I mean, I've said a lot over the years about these kinds of things and other issues. Saying stuff about it is pretty much what I'm limited to doing. I'm not a scientist and I'm not going to be out there physically involved in addressing these issues, but someone in my position, having the ear of an audience can pass on information and the feeling of things, especially the feeling of things.

So, you know, I'm still interested in that. The most recent album has a song that Susan and Blue Clark and I co wrote about climate change. In that case, it's about the ever increasing droughts and fires and so on. That issue more than any other is really the one that's front and center for me. The political issues keep intruding on that, because really that should be the focus for all of us.

We have to keep the planet going or there's no point in worrying about the rest of the stuff. You know, what's going on in Washington right now that kind of distracts us from the real issues. And we can't not pay attention to those things too. They have ramifications. 

Peter McCully: You published a memoir a few years back entitled Rumors of Glory, which talked about your extensive travels.

Which places? impacted your worldview and creative expression the most, do you think? 

Bruce Cockburn: Well, I think it'd be hard to pick out a single place, but the travels in what used to be called the third world, in the developing world, let's say, that has had a profound effect on my understanding of the world, my relationship to it, and our relationship to each other as people.

Because you can see TV footage of a refugee camp or whatever, it doesn't convey. What it's like to be among people who are forced to live in those circumstances that have fled from horrors that we can only imagine, thank God, we can only imagine, but we can never take it for granted that we won't get to experience them.

Certainly, I got a big hit characterizing a sense of solidarity with humanity, a sense of empathy and compassion. I wasn't without those things before I encountered the realities of what it's like for people in the tough places in the world. But it pushed me to grow in those directions and to have a much broader understanding of what it is to be a person and the circumstances we're in.

Peter McCully: Bruce, your guitar instrumentals, like Water Into Wine, show a very strong Celtic influence. How has traditional folk music shaped your style? 

Bruce Cockburn: It's certainly in there, along with all the other stuff. In the early 70s, I went through a phase where I chose not to listen to anybody who did anything like what I do.

I stopped listening to the radio. I didn't listen to other songwriters or any of that. And I made a point of kind of exploring all the recordings I could find from everywhere in the world. So I'm listening to the Tibetan monks chanting and guys playing rhythm on logs on the beach and tropical islands, the classical music of Japan and Azerbaijan, and it was all over the map.

It included a big dose of the chieftains and other. Music from my own roots, like the Scottish and Irish traditions. I always felt like it was not exactly a right, but something like that, to just basically steal from everywhere. Because English Canada, in my experience, didn't really provide much of a tradition.

There's some logger songs from Ontario, fishing songs from the Maritimes, but that stuff never caught me. But once I started really looking into it, there was all this other incredible music in the world. And I just felt like because I didn't have a tradition of my own to honor. And therefore I was free to steal from everybody else's.

Again, that sort of eclectic mix grew accordingly even more eclectic. The right hand of my guitar style is entirely down to mostly American folk music. The left hand has a lot of jazz in it and some other stuff. 

Peter McCully: Are there any writers or poets, on the other hand, that have influenced your songwriting style?

Bruce Cockburn: Oh, Bob Dylan did in the beginning, in a huge way. John Lennon too, Lennon and McCartney. But the influences I recognize anyway come from literature. From the poets that we studied in school coming up, T. S. Eliot, Dylan Thomas. From my discovery of the beat writers, Allen Ginsberg, William Burroughs, and Jack Kerouac, those three in particular, were influential.

I get influenced by everything I run across that touches me. So if I read a Haruki Murakami novel, that's going to have some kind of effect on me and it might show up in the songs. It could be anything. 

Peter McCully: Bruce, you mentioned you've collaborated with many artists. Were there any musical partnerships that pushed your artistic boundaries that were perhaps unexpected?

Bruce Cockburn: They all have, in a way. I operate most of the time, not in a vacuum, but in a relatively isolated set of circumstances. So, I don't spend a lot of time jamming with people, especially people I don't know, and I don't circulate around, not in a scene. So when I've collaborated with other people, whatever they've brought to the collaboration, it requires something from me to do a little bit of going to accommodate it or accommodate myself to that as the case may be.

So I haven't done a whole lot of that over the years, but it's always been sort of interesting and generally unexpected. I have my own process that I don't look at too carefully, like how I write my songs. I get an idea, I play with the idea, I work it into something. There's no real formal process there.

But when you get together with someone else, some degree of formality is required just because there's two of you now. You know, when Susan and I worked on the song on the more recent album, we weren't even physically present. We were communicating on the phone and on the internet. She was in Toronto and over the Arctic.

But we got it done, just sent in and stuff back and forth. How about this? How about this? And she had her ideas that she wanted to include and you never know when you go into something like that. I know people who are kind of professional songwriters, quote unquote, people who co write songs with all kinds of different people all the time.

I don't know how they do that. I have no insight into that. I, people say, you know, let's get together on Tuesday at two o'clock and write some songs. And then it'd be one of those songs turns out to be a country hit or something or a pop hit. But you know, I have no insight into how that gets done. 

Peter McCully: Bruce, could you tell us about the inspiration for the tune, Wondering Where the Lions Are?

Bruce Cockburn: I had a relative who worked in the international security world. And at the time, this is like the end of the 70s, Russia and China were at odds along their mutual border. There was some cannon fire back and forth and it looked quite volatile. All I knew about it was what was in the news. But I had dinner with this relative on this occasion and he said, You know, we have a hotline with Russia.

We know they have nukes and neither of us is going to surprise the other because we know that's going to cause a problem. So anytime we do anything that it's going to look suspicious, we're going to call each other up and tell them what we're doing. But China isn't part of that equation. China had nukes, it was assumed, and nobody knew what their attitude toward the use of them would be.

Were they going to be like Kim Jong un, or were they going to be more reasonable, or whatever? He says, before we know, we can wake up tomorrow and it'll be the end of the world. Well, I woke up the next day and it wasn't. Sun's up, uh huh, looks okay. And I had the dream that Song mentions, the lions, where the lions come from.

On this occasion, I dreamt of lions again, but they were these beautiful creatures at a safe distance walking around the streets of all, but they were majestic and gorgeous. So there's a whole other thing, but they're out there. If you think about it, it's all about death. You've got soldiers marching.

You've got the freighters are going to sail away as will we at the end of the song. But it's a kind of cheerful approach to that topic. It seems like it's necessary to have. A cheerful approach, at least to one's own death. You don't want to be casual about other people's, but I think for your own, it's okay to be happy about it.

Peter McCully: Bruce, your manager is Bernie Finkelstein who founded True North Records. 

Bruce Cockburn: He is, in the beginning he was the record company. He started True North Records to put out my first album. So that was the first album on True North and it was my first album. So we started that together and then after the album had been out for a few months and it was getting a lot of interest. It became apparent I was going to need a manager, and Bernie suggested that I engage him to be that. And it seemed like a good idea, so I did it, and here we are. You know, interestingly too, it's not typical of the music business. In fact, I think we're the only people I know that have been a manager artist relationship that's lasted this long. And it's on a handshake. We never wrote anything down. We're both kind of proud of that. 

Peter McCully: And True North has done really well over the years, especially with Canadian talent. 

Bruce Cockburn: That was its main mandate and it has done well and Bernie sold it a decade or more ago And it was recently sold, but True North has been a great label, an important part of the Canadian music scene for all these decades There was John Mills Coggle who was like one of the first ever synthesizer players doing a kind of pop ish electronic music and there was Murray McLaughlin, another great songwriter and Rough trade in the eighties, the band, which was a super interesting and highly entertaining band. Lots and lots of people over many years. 

Peter McCully: Bruce. Thank you for your time today. You've been quite generous. 

Bruce Cockburn: Oh, thank you. Appreciate your interest. 

Dave Graham: Bruce Cockburn. And I'm going to pull out that old phrase. He's a Canadian treasure. Truly though, a remarkably accomplished man. But I fear because of his style of music and that his peak years, at least in terms of commercial success, were a few years ago now, that he just isn't as appreciated by Canadians as he might be. Peter, what was your takeaway from that conversation? 

Peter McCully: Having seen him in concert, I would say that my takeaway was he has such an appreciation for music all over the world. Whether it be world music, Celtic music, instrumental music, folk music. He's a student of the craft and he's done remarkably well. A very talented lyricist.

Windsor Plywood French Creek: The Pulse Community Podcast is brought to you in part by Windsor Plywood in French Creek, specializing in hard to source interior and exterior home finishing products, including flooring, doors, and moldings, and exterior project materials such as yellow cedar. Windsor Plywood French Creek carries high quality, responsibly sourced products, and are committed to providing outstanding value and personalized, one on one service to all of our customers. Homeowners, do it yourselfers, renovators. Builders, designers, craftsmen, and contractors. Regardless of the type or size of your project, Windsor can help you bring your vision to life from start to finish. Let Windsor Plywood and French Creek help you with your renovation, new build, or building project. Visit them online or call 752 3122. 

Ian Lindsay & Associates: Ian Lindsay of Lindsay Associates has played an active role in the local community since 1979. He has been with RE/MAX, Vancouver Island's most advanced real estate business network since 1996, marketing and selling residential, rural, strata, recreational, investment and project development real estate. Ian has received several awards recognizing his exceptional community commitment locally. As well as awards for outstanding performance and achievement from both RE/MAX International and the Vancouver Island Real Estate Board. You'll find true real estate professionals at ianlindsay. ca. 

Dave Graham: Hey, Peter. Yes, Dave.

I have another story for you. Does this one have a point? It has suspense. It has a character of mythic proportions. It has mystery and history. Well, you've piqued my interest. What's it about? I cannot say. I'll say this, it is a true story about a wild and frightening encounter, as told by one of the eyewitnesses in his own words, and it will be coming up on a future edition of the Pulse Community Podcast. It is pretty exciting stuff, I will tell you that. 

Peter McCully: Okay, well, thanks for leaving us hanging. We appreciate it. And having said that, we welcome suggestions for stories. Exciting, mythical, or otherwise. We also appreciate hearing your comments and questions. Type an email. Dictate an email, text a message, or speak to us using your own voice.Follow the contact link at thepulsecommunity. ca and in the story notes. 

What do you say, Dave? Time to check Mabel's special in the cafeteria? 

Dave Graham: OH, she's into slogans now. Did you see yesterday's? Lose that frownie, eat a brownie? 

Peter McCully: This could get dangerous. 

Dave Graham: I'm willing to take the risk. 

Peter McCully: Okay, let's go. 

Rockin Rhonda & The Blues Band: Here comes Peter, here comes Dave, oh listen. Bringing stories, making waves. No missing. Spinning tales in the podcast cave. So to speak. Laughs and insights everywhere. What a treat. Peer and Dave. They're on the mics all right. Join the ride. It's gonna feel just right.